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I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

iliana.fyi

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Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#231

Post by NekkoDroid »

ho_schi wrote: post #216
brnt wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking back, that may have been my switching point: when setting up my distro of choice took less time then windows after a fresh install. Life without package managers, even now that there is chocolatey, is just unnecessary pain. And as a DE, windows had no edge over something like KDE.

An operating-system without a package-manager is not maintable. It hard to install, update or remove software. The validation of the system isn’t possible. Aside from the missing security. On Windows changing a setting has become a horrible task for me. Where is it? Why does the search doesn’t find it? Should I try to find the Win32-Dialog from Win2k or is this setting in WinUI3 the same? Why I have to sit in front o…

I haven't exactly ever tested myself this, but apparently most of the major distros have a way to do that: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Rosetta#Verification...

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#232

Post by smoldesu »

pjmlp wrote: post #214
smoldesu wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pity that Khronos never got the support they needed to make cross-platform raster APIs a reality. I mean really, what an enormous and crying shame that a successor to a highly-demanded API like OpenGL never emerged. It's really quite sad that users never had a corporate champion to resist the allure of a proprietary graphics API. The stage was set for every modern OS to be unified under a new raster library, but the…

Just like PlayStation, XBox and Switch. Game studios aren't FOSS indie devs stressing out about 3D APIs. They are used to specific hardware since the Atari and Magnavox.

> Game studios aren't FOSS indie devs stressing out about 3D APIs.

You should tell them that, they must not be aware considering all the APIs they pass over and platforms they avoid.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#233

Post by pjmlp »

smoldesu wrote: post #232
pjmlp wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like PlayStation, XBox and Switch. Game studios aren't FOSS indie devs stressing out about 3D APIs. They are used to specific hardware since the Atari and Magnavox.

> Game studios aren't FOSS indie devs stressing out about 3D APIs. You should tell them that, they must not be aware considering all the APIs they pass over and platforms they avoid.

Exactly because of my past history with the games industry 20 years ago, and some contacts I still have, I know much better than random HN commenter ranting about why studios don't care.

Food for thought, not even the studios targeting Android/NDK care about GNU/Linux, despite both platforms having the same 3D, audio and device API relevant for games.

It isn't the APIs that make them not care about GNU/Linux.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#234

Post by arminiusreturns »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #210
arminiusreturns wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Godot and haven't looked back.

How is performance?

Quite good actually when you use the forward+ renderer (vulkan) and do the little things properly (using multimeshinstances or shaders heavily instead of tons of direct meshes, using occlusion culling properly, making sure you have multi-threading enabled, run physics on a sep proc, etc). I'm evening running with full dynamic global illum and loving it.

I'm not trying to prematurely optimize but my game worlds are very large, (I have a working to scale earth for example) (oops, forgot to mention, to get good large world behavior, compiling with double precision is a must! (https://godotengine.org/article/emulating-double-precision-g...)) so I've been watching lots of GDC and other talks from AAA titles and how they do their rendering pipelines, and my conclusion is that shaders are really the powerhouse of gamedev these days and anyone interested would do themselves a favor to start learning the quirks of your engines shader language now.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#235

Post by arendtio »

0x457 wrote: post #115
eropple wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anti-cheat only serves the consumer if it is well-designed. However, if someone is able to design a game (technically) well, anti-cheat is unnecessary. That silly "speed of light" thing? Just design better.

There are cheats today that takes your monitor output and act like a hardware mouse. There is nothing you can do with game design about it.

And some cheats happen on a different device. There is no way anti-cheat software can defeat those (even eye trackers are not perfect).

The design question is about software that abuses the game state, which is sent to the client, but not displayed to the player (e.g. wall-hacks), and software that sends impossible input (e.g. speed hacks). Anything that manipulates mouse input is very hard to counter.

In the end, all the technical solutions have limits and you need other means to solve the issue (e.g. play with friends/live events). However, anti-cheat software tries to counter many cases that can be solved by better implementations (e.g. servers that send very limited information to the client).

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#236

Post by arendtio »

IshKebab wrote: post #85
arendtio wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not, but both are symptoms of a consumer-disrespecting mindset. - DRM does not serve the consumer, but the producer. - Anti-cheat only serves the consumer if it is well-designed. However, if someone is able to design a game (technically) well, anti-cheat is unnecessary. And if someone cannot design a game, their anti-cheat is often a disservice to the consumer. I don't like either DRM or anti-cheat solutions…

> However, if someone is able to design a game (technically) well, anti-cheat is unnecessary. Nonsense. It's completely impossible to stop cheaters these days, but anti-cheat technology definitely raises the bar. It's only "unnecessary" if you're willing to accept a large number of cheaters. Some anti-cheat stuff definitely goes to far but to dismiss the idea entirely is just naïve.

> It's completely impossible to stop cheaters these days

On that part, we can agree, and if you think I want to 'dismiss the idea' you completely misunderstood the point. My point is, that the cases anti-cheat software tries to solve, are cases that a well-designed game has solved in the beginning (e.g. sending limited game state to clients, discarding impossible input, etc.).

On the other side of the coin, I have seen players who cheated even with anti-cheat in place (like you said), for some games I was unable to play games via proton because the anti-cheat didn't work and I was unable to play some games because the developers messed up their anti-cheat implementation. So there are drawbacks to a feature that has limited use and for which many cases can be solved by other means.

In the end, there are many cheat cases that anti-cheat software can't solve (e.g. using a secondary device) and which have to be solved by other means (e.g. spectator delays, live events, private servers).

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#237

Post by smoldesu »

pjmlp wrote: post #233
smoldesu wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Game studios aren't FOSS indie devs stressing out about 3D APIs. You should tell them that, they must not be aware considering all the APIs they pass over and platforms they avoid.

Exactly because of my past history with the games industry 20 years ago, and some contacts I still have, I know much better than random HN commenter ranting about why studios don't care. Food for thought, not even the studios targeting Android/NDK care about GNU/Linux, despite both platforms having the same 3D, audio and device API relevant for games. It isn't the APIs that make them not care about GNU/Linux.

Totally, duly noted. Do try out Digital Combat Simulator when Mac figures out the whole DirectX thing though, it's a must-see on recent machines. Ciao!

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#238

Post by IshKebab »

ekianjo wrote: post #229
IshKebab wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, if someone is able to design a game (technically) well, anti-cheat is unnecessary. Nonsense. It's completely impossible to stop cheaters these days, but anti-cheat technology definitely raises the bar. It's only "unnecessary" if you're willing to accept a large number of cheaters. Some anti-cheat stuff definitely goes to far but to dismiss the idea entirely is just naïve.

> Nonsense. It's completely impossible to stop cheaters these days on the user side, it's perfectly possible if you only play online with your friends. The whole idea that we should be able to play with random people if we all accept to have a kernel rootkit needs to die. Ultimately that's exactly what the NSA and other agencies want you to support.

Sure but most people prefer not to have to spend their lives finding enough friends that some are always available when they have 5 minutes free to play one game of Rocket League.

I suppose you could argue that games could offer an "anti-cheat free" version that can only be used in private matches. But I think you can imagine how many downloads that would get.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#239

Post by doublepg23 »

glitchcrab wrote: post #178
0x457 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because plenty of arch users just copy and paste things from arch wiki and stackoverflow without thinking.

Agreed, Arch is not a good My First Linux for sure. I would never suggest it to someone without a decent bit of experience under their belt.

On the other hand, I learned a lot as a newbie.

Make mistakes, get messy, etc.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#240

Post by kuschku »

mainde wrote: post #101
kuschku wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right in that, if your server rejects inputs that are too fast, too precise, too robotic to be human, bots will emulate the top-playing humans ever more closely. But the question I want to ask is: Is that a problem? If all the bots and cheaters are playing indistinguishable from high-level real humans, where's the harm? Or, to quote Westworld: If you can't tell the difference, does it matter?

Uhm, yes, I think it is a problem because unfairly losing isn't as fun as fairly losing or fairly winning. Ignorance about the fairness of a game may work in a few instances but would not scale. You don't have to reach pro levels, it often only takes small assists to turn a balanced game on its head, ruining someone's experience with a game. Repeat often enough and the userbase will leave, feeling cheated or at least…

Why would you be unable to compete? The matchmaking system will still put you against users on a similar level to yourself. Whether they're your level through cheats or natively doesn't matter.

A player playing cs go at 1280×720 at 30 ps on a ball mouse will always loose to one on playing at 2560×1440 240fps with a high-quality mouse.

Now there's one more dimension of unfairness. But who cares? You're still going to be winning ~51% of the time, that's why matchmaking systems exist.

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