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Generation Junk

walterkirn.substack.com

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Re: Generation Junk

#231

Post by pkdpic »

spzb wrote: post #119
woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

There's also a survival bias in that we don't consider the appliances from yesteryear that packed up back when disco was king.

That's the smartest possible counterpoint to all this, nicely counterpointed.

This was a fun read and I agree in sentiment to the rage of all the crap from target that falls apart in 10 minutes but I feel like I've developed an ok sense if when I'm taking this risk and am less frustrated when something cheap fails. Essentially any time I buy anything but a book from Amazon or anything but cereal and vodka from Target. Ultimately I think the crapification of lowend consumer goods has just made me buy less crap, which feels good I think. I've also accepted a pretend scifi narrative in which the only kind of society that doesn't descend into anarchy is one where people are constantly buying and throwing away cheap crap.

And as an aside I have one of those crazy juicers but I stopped using it because it scares my wife and smells like burning / ozone.

Re: Generation Junk

#232

Post by hug »

willbush wrote: post #99
klipklop wrote: post #42

I wonder if this is the symptom of ever eroding purchasing power the average western person is experiencing. Everyone is looking to stretch their income further and are willing to buy ever cheaper, but flimsy goods. Really the only thing that will fix it is stronger warranty law, this will make things more expensive, but it will massively cut down on landfill fodder. A refrigerator that can’t last 20 years is terribl…

I recently made a blog post / rant about this exact thing https://willbush.dev/blog/complex-appliances/ . I only shared it https://slrpnk.net/c/buyitforlife . Someone mentioned a warranty law in the EU that affects quality https://slrpnk.net/comment/4749319 . I didn't look too far into it. Anyone know anything about that?

I know nothing about the EU, but I do know about Australia; Under consumer protection laws in Australia, AKA “statutory warranty”, goods must be fit for purpose or replaceable under warranty for the reasonable expected lifetime of the goods. I have friends who have received a replacement fridge, under warranty, five years after the purchase date of the failed fridge — any reasonable person would expect a fridge to function for more than 5 years.

Apple have also been forced to replace MacBooks under warranty as far as 4 years out, from my anecdotal experience, and even have pages addressing expectations: https://www.apple.com/au/legal/statutory-warranty/au/

The money quote from the above link:

> For the avoidance of doubt, Apple acknowledges that the Australian Consumer Law may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products.

It’s worth noting that the Australian consumer law states that goods must be of “acceptable quality”, or “merchantable quality”, specifically related to advertised quality and price: essentially if you are sold something more expensive for more money, it has more warranty.

Re: Generation Junk

#233

Post by Baeocystin »

willis936 wrote: post #27
fullstop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A toaster in 1951 was $21, which is about $250 today. I would argue that a $250 toaster today is still not a "buy it for life" item, but it would certainly have a lot of bells and whistles and almost no user-serviceable parts.

Toasters are an interesting case study. I went on a tear last year after being fed up with every toaster doing the same bad job. I thought maybe someone made a proper toaster. What I found is that when you pay more the coat of paint gets nicer and maybe there's an MCU+LCD, but the guts and logic are identical. There is no good commercially available toaster today. It's sending a very loud message about how markets op…

Highly relevant Technology Connections video on toasters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y

Re: Generation Junk

#234

Post by pkdpic »

irjustin wrote: post #30
woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

> Modern cars are much, much more reliable and durable than ones built at any time in the past. Forget "durability" - safety is paramount. Those old cars were tanks, simpler, last longer and easier to repair but absolute death traps and dump smog. [Edit] Guess they didn't last longer, either way I'm happy to leave behind the cars of yester-year... even the 90's a bit sketch (though WAYYYY better).

Yeah those old timey pedestrians didn't stand a chance. Seriously though good point I think, but what about crumple zones?

Re: Generation Junk

#235

Post by gocartStatue »

YouWhy wrote: post #220
MichaelZuo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have that level of quality and care for the entire car, not just limited to the drivetrain and electronics, and it's probably even in a showroom right now waiting for buyers, just at your nearest Rolls Royce dealership.

I would not expect RR to be particularly high quality, due to: 1. Small production batches, 2. Low typical usage - most RR owners do not use it to commute on a daily basis, hence do not face high reliability requirements, 3. The ability of the typical buyer to overspend on maintenance, whether preemptively or on-demand.

Small production batches are absolutely required for high quality (see Toyota, TQM)

Re: Generation Junk

#236

Post by nox100 »

nox100 wrote: post #228
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #68

I’ve had to buy a lot of furniture and other things for my new house this year, and one of the things that really sticks out to me is that practically every category of product seems to be split into a bimodal distribution: cheap crap & luxury boutique. There are practically no entries occupying the middle of the market that are on the basic end regarding features & frills but also high-quality. It’s incredibly annoy…

I'm curious. My previous soft was from Ikea. Of course Ikea makes cheap disposable furniture but this sofa, IMO, was not one of those. It was made of real wood, not particle board. It was super well designed. It assembled into 4 parts using slots and a few very large steal bolts and was also easy to disassemble for moving. It's entire cover was easy to remove so you could clean stains or easily replace it. Same for t…

Let me also add, in many other categories, I've rarely found a correlation between price, brand, and quality.

Worst luggage I ever owned was Rimowa. It was the most expensive I've bought and broke several times. They'd fix it, but who wants to spend their vacation taking their luggage to the repair shop (and lugging it full from the airport to the hotel while it's broke)

Worst and most expensive jacket I ever bought, Paul Smith, got a hole in the main pocket within 30 days and the hanging hook in the collar broke in 2 weeks.

Worst jeans I ever bought, Diesel. Ripped in 1 month.

Re: Generation Junk

#237

Post by ggm »

woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

I think your survivors bias thing is very true. I've used old things which would survive nuclear blast, and still have some. And, old things which were gimcrack rubbish and unusable.

Some old plastics de-polymerised badly in heat. A lot of old chrome and tin plating corrodes. Bone handled cutlery is not designed for dishwashers. Sure, the mix master is going strong but it was gold plated when my mother in law got it. Same with the cast aluminium mincer.

That said, I fixed a 24 year old magimix by replacing the motor starter, everything else is fine except its on its second polycarbonate bowl since dishwashers: now only washed by hand.

Re: Generation Junk

#238

Post by anizan »

klausa wrote: post #69
klipklop wrote: post #42

I wonder if this is the symptom of ever eroding purchasing power the average western person is experiencing. Everyone is looking to stretch their income further and are willing to buy ever cheaper, but flimsy goods. Really the only thing that will fix it is stronger warranty law, this will make things more expensive, but it will massively cut down on landfill fodder. A refrigerator that can’t last 20 years is terribl…

>A refrigerator that can’t last 20 years is terrible for the environment to throw away when it lasts 3-6 like many Samsung and LG fridges do… Modern fridges are much more energy efficient, which makes this calculus somewhat complicated.

We stick with Panasonic for most of our home appliances. Quality has been consistently higher than South Korean brands.

Re: Generation Junk

#239

Post by 10729287 »

pixl97 wrote: post #154
x0x0 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the explanation that people are getting exactly the dirt-cheap shoddy crap they demand is correct. You can buy a nice burr grinder from a company that not only sells spare parts for at least 5 years after they stop selling the model, but who also shares youtube videos on how to disassemble and repair the grinder. Mine is 11.5 years old and I replaced the central gear when it stripped around year 7 or 8, after g…

I mean for myself buying a cheap burr grinder is probably all I'd ever need, that said I've never chased quality coffee and don't care about it much. For myself I do the 'harbor freight' tool buying method. I buy a cheap whatever first, and if it's something I find useful and demand higher quality then I more research into what quality is with at least some experience. This said, I've also had a lot of cheap tools th…

Lidl/Parkside here in Europe seems to be the perfect example. Never been disapointed by one of their cheap products. They're always performing and seems built to last. My little Parkside vacuum cleaner is still doing strong 10 years after I bought it while my 5yo expensive as hell Dyson operates intermittently now and is just screaming for a new battery every time I launch it. More expensive products are also prone to software tricks and planned obsolescence... and unfortunately sometimes just plain crap that capitalize on their good reputation from the past.

Re: Generation Junk

#240

Post by idontwantthis »

spzb wrote: post #119
woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

There's also a survival bias in that we don't consider the appliances from yesteryear that packed up back when disco was king.

Yeah this article would be a lot more interesting if there were a conspiracy to buy up all of the indestructible appliances made more than x decades ago. If they really were that much better then more of them would be around today.
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