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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#231
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly remember similar sized, if not larger, protests against the Iraq war.

Iraq never attacked anyone. A better comparison is the war in Afghanistan. If we compare # of people in each country. 10/07 for Israel was like 15 9/11s (this is a quote from a President Biden speech). So not only is it worth asking - how many Americans didnt want to fight Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. But how many would be against some sort of war like that, if tomorrow morning they woke up to a 9/11 sized attack in 15 o…

The US didn't go to war to 'destroy Afghanistan'. They went to war to fight the Taliban.

> Iraq never attacked anyone

I am not sure Kuwait would agree.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#232
post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. > If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views. That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other. N…

If you want to start counting drivers, there are at least three

1) The algorithms of the platforms

2) The disinformation / astroturfing / asymetric warfare, driven from Russia, Iran, CCP, and many other 'interested parties'

3) The actual organic opinions

The drivers are in about that order of force. The point of #2 is to make it appear organic, so people can make the argument that 'it's just people's opinion', even when it is wrong.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#233
post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This. I have always been very very skeptical of the motives and intentions of various BDS groups over the years. Lots of issues with hypocrisy, propaganda, and double standards. But that doesn't excuse the murder of thousands of civilians in collective retribution for the murder of a few dozen. It's possible for both things to be true: Hamas is bad and committed a heinous act of terrorism, and Israel is committing a…

As far as i understand, the main goal of the Israel operation is to remove Hamas capability to launch another Oct.7-style attack in the future: prevention, not retaliation (though one can argue if there is a way to achieve this goal with less cost on civilians).

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. > If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views. That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other. N…

There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.

Are there actually many equally abhorrent issues right now? I can think of like, 2, and they're both involving the exact same actors.

Doctors were forced at gunpoint to leave premature babies to rot at Al Nasr hospital. And you're surprised that the world is horrified?!

Journalists and healthcare staff and schools have been targeted at a shocking rate. Civil infrastructure and historic churches blown up without the thinnest veil of a reason. More UN staff killed than any 'conflict' in history. Human rights groups and genocide experts are calling this genocide, ethnic cleansing, and worse.

And this wasn't done by some poor, decimated, tin pot dictatorship. This was done by a nuclear power, and it was supported by England and American politicians against the express wishes of a large majority of their populations.

There's no gain; none. No conceivable good can come from this. Believing that such acts will end Hamas/terror is profoundly delusional.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#236
There was always going to be an opinion war after 1200 massacred civilians, when a large portion of the other side doesn't take the primary tack of "stop bombing Palestine" but instead "Free Palestine".

This particular pro-Palestinian argument being so imprecise and tactically wrong, at this crucial time to saving the lives of Palestinians, only guarantees an unsovable hurricane of noise with no outcome but more civilian deaths and more war.

As the other side can not and will not reward the spark of the initial massacre to force a benefits negotiation, obviously. Let alone one that discusses ceding territory.

It's morally logical to be aghast at the Palestinian Civilian death toll, regardless of the argument as to who is ultimately responsible.

But it is morally unforgiveable for people, living in safety and ostensibly in support of voiceless Palestinians in a war zone, to decide to put a territory argument above Paelstinian lives.

This argument further endangers Palestinian lives when it radicalizes them in a manner, within the context of an unwinnable situation, that all but assures their deaths.

Hamas has been clear about their choice of the promise of territory over the lives of the entire Palestinian population.

Less doomed and morally clearer people need to make the choice to discharge the Palestinian population from their duty as pawns. Even if it means living a long life in another desert that isn't under terrorist militia control. In the context of an absolutely unwinnable situation.

Israel is clear, whatever one thinks of the nature of that clarity. That the Palestinians are unclear is why there will be a continued "information war" until the exact point when there isn't the possibility of Palestinians tolerating a single further death. At which point the rallying cry will focus solely on Palestinian lives.

We should all hope that this mutual clarity comes in this very minute. If not in this minute, then in the next. So that the maximum number of lives can be saved.

People can rail against that reality forever, but it will remain reality.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I’m not holding them to a higher standard. Imagine if you will someone going to start large scale bombing NYC. Or London. Or Rome. The Hamas attack was unprecedented and horrific. I don’t know that it justifies declaring all out war on and entire city. I can say that without being anti-Semitic.

>Imagine if you will someone going to start large scale bombing NYC. Or London. Or Rome.

The response to Sep 11, 2001?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#238

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

[flagged]

It's the same standard the entire world held the US to after 9/11. A response to the attacks by Al-Qaeda was justified, the 20 year "Crusade" across the Middle East was not. A response by Israel against Hamas terrorism is justified - a campaign of extermination and genocide is not.

It isn't even a high standard, "don't commit genocide" has been the bare minimum requirement for any modern country, much less democracy, for nearly a century. It would be antisemitic to believe that Israel is uniquely incapable of meeting that minimum standard.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. > If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views. That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other. N…

There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.

Right now, there is nowhere else in the world where so many civilians are being killed. Nothing else even comes close. 20k deaths in just two months is a massive death toll for such a short conflict. For comparison, it's more than the civilian death toll in the nearly 2-year-old war in Ukraine.

The other thing is that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for decades, and many people have formed strong opinions on it. The United States is deeply involved in the conflict, as it is Israel's major international backer. There are both Palestinian and Jewish diasporas all around the world that care deeply about the issue. There are many reasons why this conflict captures so many people's attention.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#240

That's a really... weird article to read. It's like reading a fantasy book about another universe. Or a desperate attempt at "inception". Reddit, at least, seems to be (rightfully or not) dominated by a strongly anti-Israel narrative. Even the "great" BBC is not willing to call a spade a spade.

Interestingly I've seen a strong pro-Israel bias, particularly on the larger subreddits (like the default ones). Some of the smaller ones do seem to have a pro-Palestine (or pro-civilian) outlook but nothing that I would describe as "strongly anti-Israel"

The default subreddits are truly awful. r/worldnews is the first one that comes to mind. They were accusing the murdered Reuters journalist of being a member of hamas.

I decided to never look at those subreddits ever again.

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