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Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

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Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#231

Post by yownie »

Intralexical wrote: post #198
moralestapia wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, is this supposed to be an argument in favor of that structure? Have you read any news about Mozilla's budget in the past 10 years or so?

> Have you read any news about Mozilla's budget in the past 10 years or so? Revenue/Expenses/Net Assets 2013: $314m/$295m/$255m 2018: $450m/$451m/$524m 2021: $600m/$340m/$1,054m (Note: "2017 was an outlier, due in part to changes in the search revenue deal that was negotiated that year." 2019 was also much higher than both 2018 and 2020 for some reason.) 2018 to 2021 also saw their revenue from "Subscription and adve…

>Seriously, Mozilla gets shat on all the time, presumably because they're one of the few sources of hope and therefore disappointment in an overall increasingly problematic Internet landscape, and I wish they would be bigger too, but they're doing fine all things considered.

I think they get shat on all the time because of what you mentioned but also because they consistently fail to deliver a good browser experience for most of their still loyal users.

Most of the people I talk to who still use their product do so out of allegiance to the values of FOSS despite the dog-shit products they keep foisting upon us. You'd think we'd wise up several decades in by now.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#232

Post by dathinab »

avsteele wrote: post #142
dathinab wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I would even say it's the opposite. Through the public actions of Sam Altman in various places like the US congress it has become rather clear that his goals are to device and fear monger to create an environment of regulatory capture where due to misguided laws OpenAI will have an unfair competitive advantage. This might be quite in line with what Microsoft tends to like. But it also can be a risk for MS if regu…

Or maybe he just believes the things he testified to. Would be parsimonious.

through some of the things he sayed where very clearly not true if you understand a bit the technology used and very clearly pure fear mongering

so if he believed everything he sayed it means he would be incompetent, which just can't be true however I look at it (which means I'm 100% certain sure he acted dishonest in congress, and like I sayed before I'm not fully sure why but it's either way a problem as he lost the trust of a lot of other people involved through that and some other actions).

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#233

Post by falserum »

sho_hn wrote: post #161
bastawhiz wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally the exact corporate structure of Mozilla.

And Bosch, more or less: > Robert Bosch GmbH, including its wholly owned subsidiaries, is unusual in that it is an extremely large, privately owned corporation that is almost entirely (92%) owned by a charitable foundation. Thus, while most of the profits are invested back into the corporation to build for the future and sustain growth, nearly all of the profits distributed to shareholders are devoted to humanitarian…

Note: this structure is for tax purposes. In the spirit of “Own nothing, control everything”.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#234

Post by voitvod »

dougmwne wrote: post #24

I think this strengthens my theory that the AI safety true believers wrestled control away from the entrepreneurs. The Open AI board letter, representing just 4 people, screams butt hurt and personal disagreements. Microsoft, who just finished building OpenAI’s models into every core product, was blindsided. The chairman of the OpenAI board, Greg Brockman, another startup exec was pushed out at the same time. Eric Sc…

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#235

Post by HeavyStorm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #221
IAmNotACellist wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI shouldn't even be making a profit, as it's a 501(c)3 charity. The whole umbrella for-profit corp they formed when they became popular should be illegal, and is clearly immoral.

> OpenAI shouldn't even be making a profit, as it's a 501(c)3 charity First, the “OpenAI" whose profits are being discussed isn't a 501(c)3 charity, but a for-profit LLC (OpenAI Global, LLC) with three other organizations between it and the charity. Second, charities and other nonprofits can make profits (surplus revenue), they just can't return revenues (but they can have for profit subsidiaries that return profit t…

> Not sure what moral principal and analysis you are applying to reach this conclusion.

I'm not the parent, but I think it's clear: if I'm a charity, and I have a subordinate that is for profit, then I'm not a charity. I'm working for profit, and disguising myself for the benefits of being a charity.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#236

Post by darkerside »

upwardbound wrote: post #222
google234123 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She has an h index of 8 :/ thats tiny for those that are unaware, in property much every field. AI papers are getting an infinite number of citations now a days because the field is exploding - just goes to show no one doing actual AI research cares about her work Anyway, the idea that the Chinese military or leadership actually will sacrifice a potential advantage in the name of ai safety is absurd.

> She has an h index of 8 :/ thats tiny Agreed. She’s not famous for her publications. She’s famous (and intimidating) for being a “power broker” or whatever the term is for the person who is participating in off-the-record one-on-one meetings with military generals. > Anyway, the idea that the Chinese military or leadership actually will sacrifice a potential advantage in the name of ai safety is absurd. The point o…

Terrifying that people need this explained to them, bit they absolutely do, and I'm glad she is doing the work.

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#237

Post by blueblisters »

upwardbound wrote: post #222
google234123 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She has an h index of 8 :/ thats tiny for those that are unaware, in property much every field. AI papers are getting an infinite number of citations now a days because the field is exploding - just goes to show no one doing actual AI research cares about her work Anyway, the idea that the Chinese military or leadership actually will sacrifice a potential advantage in the name of ai safety is absurd.

> She has an h index of 8 :/ thats tiny Agreed. She’s not famous for her publications. She’s famous (and intimidating) for being a “power broker” or whatever the term is for the person who is participating in off-the-record one-on-one meetings with military generals. > Anyway, the idea that the Chinese military or leadership actually will sacrifice a potential advantage in the name of ai safety is absurd. The point o…

> The point of her work (and mine and Dr. Horvitz’s as well) is to make it clear that putting AI in charge of nuclear weapons and other existential questions is self-defeating

Is part of the advocacy convincing nation-states that an AI arms-race is not similar to a nuclear arms-race amounting to a stalemate?

What's the best place for a non-expert to read about this?

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#238

Post by belter »

Sosh101 wrote: post #113
quickthrowman wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it backwards, the not for profit entity owns the for profit entity. From Wikipedia: > OpenAI is an American artificial intelligence (AI) organization consisting of the non-profit OpenAI, Inc.[4] registered in Delaware and its for-profit subsidiary corporation OpenAI Global, LLC.[5] IKEA [0] and Rolex [1] are structured in a similar manner, although different since they’re not US based. [0] https://en.m.wikip…

Sounds perverse somehow.

Preverse it is: "IKEA’s 15 years of tax evasion and fraud via the Netherlands" - https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2021-00517...

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#239

Post by [deleted] »

HeavyStorm wrote: post #235
dragonwriter wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OpenAI shouldn't even be making a profit, as it's a 501(c)3 charity First, the “OpenAI" whose profits are being discussed isn't a 501(c)3 charity, but a for-profit LLC (OpenAI Global, LLC) with three other organizations between it and the charity. Second, charities and other nonprofits can make profits (surplus revenue), they just can't return revenues (but they can have for profit subsidiaries that return profit t…

> Not sure what moral principal and analysis you are applying to reach this conclusion. I'm not the parent, but I think it's clear: if I'm a charity, and I have a subordinate that is for profit, then I'm not a charity. I'm working for profit, and disguising myself for the benefits of being a charity.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

#240

Post by valine »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #210
valine wrote: post #8

If anything this is a power grab by the board away from Microsoft. Optimistically, this could be an attempt to return OpenAI to its original status as a true non-profit company. OpenAI lost most of its openness under Sam. They needed the Microsoft investment before GPT scaling was proven out. I imagine many entities would be willing to put money into a truly open research lab given OpenAI’s track record.

> put money into a truly open research lab given OpenAI’s track record. Why? It’s hard to imagine anyone putting any significant amounts of money (in comparison to the MS deal anyway) without any exclusivity rights at least

OpenAI has the most capable language model in the world, that’s bordering on a national security asset. I could see the US government stepping in to provide funding.
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