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Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

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Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#231

Post by dadadatamen »

Nextgrid wrote: post #213
dadadatamen wrote: post #183

behavioral marketing is about more than making money. you are nudging millions and billions of people in certain directions. It has completely changed majorities of brackets of the current and last generation. laws will not be enough to stop this

Laws may not be enough but it would be a good start at least. If that doesn’t work we’ll try something else.

my bad for not elaborating.

we have always been dependant on whistleblowers and ethical hackers and now, for just a few years, we are at the tipping point where they are the last line of defence. Corruption has almost irreversibly disabled the playing field on which the civil society can act as a red team to corporate visions and strategies.

Something else is always in attempt and laws are an absolute must but whether either of the many measures work, lies in the hands of whistleblowers and hackers.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#232

Post by dadadatamen »

logifail wrote: post #230
hackideiomat wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

teach your kids signal?

> teach your kids signal? Getting your own kids to switch messenging client is fairly trivial. Then they can talk to you (and to each other). The network effect means you then have to persuade other kids, and parents, and sports coaches, and music teachers and ... to switch. (Source: have three kids and we have exactly this issue)

Did you organize meetings with parents? In coop with teachers?

Signal is spy stuff. WhatsApp means obedience and submission.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#233

Post by lopis »

hackideiomat wrote: post #220
lopis wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often see this argument that if we'd all pay for services like Facebook, they wouldn't have to charge. Let me offer a counterpoint: if there is money on the table, corporations will get it. Example, you pay for cable, and still get ads. You pay for Netflix and still get Netflix ads in the app. All paid aps harvest and sell your behaviour data. Greed does not permit that money be left on the table.

There are companies that try to align their incentives with the customers incentives by using a certain business model. I pay $25 for a search engine, that costs way less than operating netflix. I would be very shocked if they actually abuse the data they shouldn't collect on me. My point being, this only applies to very big coorps. There are companies that (at least claim to) care about privacy and do not sell off t…

Well of course. If they sell you a specific product and then don't deliver, then there wasn't money on the table, that's just lying.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#234

Post by dadadatamen »

tempaccount1234 wrote: post #208
dadadatamen wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can. It's almost quite literally an effort of 30 - 60 min per day or week or month, depending on how skilled you are at keeping things convenient, meaning self-hosting services and maintaining them.

You can, but if you decide to stay away from messengers like WhatsApp, you miss out. Which is OK unless you have kids in school age. Once a service gets so big, that you are practically forced to join, regulation seems like a very good idea

Regulation is imperative.

Missing out is an illusion.

Enough ways to get around the benefits of using WhatsApp for business. Enough customers hate using WhatsApp to communicate with businesses.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#235

Post by dadadatamen »

A_non_e-moose wrote: post #218
dadadatamen wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody will blow the whistle on whether that's true or not. It's a fact that we can't trust companies like Meta. Not because it's engineers who implement dark patterns or because all the people in a business earn more money if they disregard human or environmental wellbeing but because leadership literally lies to congress, judges, the public, their users and their customers all the freaking time.

> leadership literally lies to congress, judges, the public, their users and their customers all the freaking time. The judiciary system takes lies into account. Doing that while testifying under oath might end poorly. See SBF's trial for reference.

And that's great! Similar schemes are still rollin', though, and there are people right here on HN, who could blow the whistle on a great many things that are unethical and corrupt.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#236

Post by dadadatamen »

theonlybutlet wrote: post #204
dadadatamen wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, change your way of picking an employer, I guess?! the thing is, almost everyone is or will be looking in the near future.

What I do is of no consequence if that's all hiring managers do. These apps can become systemic.

attentional bias. That's not all all hiring managers do.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#237

Post by logifail »

dadadatamen wrote: post #232
logifail wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> teach your kids signal? Getting your own kids to switch messenging client is fairly trivial. Then they can talk to you (and to each other). The network effect means you then have to persuade other kids, and parents, and sports coaches, and music teachers and ... to switch. (Source: have three kids and we have exactly this issue)

Did you organize meetings with parents? In coop with teachers? Signal is spy stuff. WhatsApp means obedience and submission.

> Did you organize meetings with parents? In coop with teachers?

At least where we are, schools have been told not to touch WhatsApp at all, and use another (more GDPR-compliant) messaging product; despite this there is typically an unofficial WhatsApp group for each class, but no teachers are members.

> WhatsApp means obedience and submission

I don't disagree, but I don't think you'll convince many parents to stop using WhatsApp if you approach it like that.

My impression is that most parents are very busy people and are just trying to keep up with the chaos caused by their kids; they will opt for the easiest solution that solves their problem.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#238

Post by Y-bar »

nusq wrote: post #89
exabrial wrote: post #3

If i travel to the eu as an American does that mean it’s illegal to track me while present in their territory? Would I be able to sue them and which country would be most favorable for the largest payout if so? I’m happy to write their support team an email letting them know my intentions to travel (lol).

No, RGPD only applies to EU citizens even if they are abroad or if they are using services not based in the EU.

Not entirely correct, it applies to EU and EEA _residents_.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#239

Post by bluelu »

seabass-labrax wrote: post #210
bluelu wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a double standart again. Newspapers lobbied the EU that it s allowed for them (not sure if it was changed at the end). But if you go to a large european newspaper site (eg spiegel.de) then it explicitely asks you tha you pay to access it or you must agree to behavioral advertising. But facebook should not be allowed to do this.

I loath Spiegel just as much as any other online privacy advocate, but I'd always assumed they were simply in violation of the GDPR. Can you provide any references indicating that this is the result of a special exemption due to successful lobbying?

There is a german artcile about this here:

https://www.heise.de/news/E-Privacy-Verordnung-EU-Rat-fuer-V...

Read the part about cookie walls for newspapers:

Cookie-Wall soll bleiben

Wer auf seiner Webseite unentgeltlich Nachrichteninhalte verfügbar macht und das durch Werbung finanziert, soll dabei Cookies ohne Zustimmung der Nutzer setzen können. Eine "Cookie-Wall" als Alternative zu einer Bezahlschranke soll also zulässig bleiben. User, die nicht für Werbezwecke analysiert werden möchten, müssen gegebenenfalls ein kostenpflichtiges Abo abschließen. Diese Klausel wird an die Voraussetzung geknüpft, dass der User prinzipiell zwischen verschiedenen Varianten wählen können. Dazu kommen weite Spielräume für Direktmarketing auch via Bots.

Re: Norwegian ban on Meta behavioral advertising extended to entire EU

#240

Post by bluelu »

klabb3 wrote: post #205
bluelu wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a double standart again. Newspapers lobbied the EU that it s allowed for them (not sure if it was changed at the end). But if you go to a large european newspaper site (eg spiegel.de) then it explicitely asks you tha you pay to access it or you must agree to behavioral advertising. But facebook should not be allowed to do this.

Yes and this should be pointed out. However, it’s imo far from a simple selfish lobbying move. If behavioral advertising and tracking is not allowed by anyone , it will even the playing field as ads return to being context-centric, as it should. It’s too early to say if news papers will try to weasel out an exception for themselves in such a world, imo. More generally, you can want a change for everyone even if you a…

Newspapers weaseled already an exeption out 2 years ago, see https://www.heise.de/news/E-Privacy-Verordnung-EU-Rat-fuer-V...
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