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Car showed pop-up while driving

glitterkitten.co.uk

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Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a pint is a defined measure, but a cup is just… random. Should I use a big cup or a little cup? A teacup? A coffee cup? What about that giant mug from can measure butter in cups but also flour, and oil and water. I can pour 50ml of liquid by eye and be accurate to a ml. I can cut 50g of butter from a block and be accurate to a couple of grams. A cup though? God help me. I do not understand cups!

> Because a pint is a defined measure, but a cup is just… random. A cup is a defined measure equal to 1/2 pint. (Or, equivalently, 8 fluid ounces.) Or, since you can pour by eye to within 1ml, more useful to you might be ~236.6ml

See, I had no idea about that because we just don’t use cups here. But as I pointed out elsewhere it’s not about liquids - the thing that confuses me with cups is solids because 50g of butter = 50g of flour but 1 cup of butter does not equal one cup of flour.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well your butter example is pretty easy for lots of butter sold in the US. They're sold as a box of sticks each stick wrapped in thin wax paper. The wrapper has marks for every tablespoon of butter. Each stick is half a cup. A box is four sticks so it's two cups aka a pint. So if you need a cup of butter, it's just two sticks. Which is an example of how I'd rather things just be consistent instead of mixing units. If…

So hold on… butter is sold in sticks, marked in tablespoons, collected in boxes and split into cups? This is great work, you’re a creature after my own heart! This thing about cups is that 50g of flour = 50g of butter but 1 cup of flour does not equal 1 cup of butter. For me cups make sense for liquids but not for solids.

Cups are a volumetric measurement, not a mass measurement. 1 cup of flour == 1 cup of butter in the same way that 500mL of flour == 500mL of butter. You just don't normally measure flour in mL.

This is confusing because there are fluid ounces (usually labeled as FL OZ) which are a measurement of volume and are subdivisions of cups (a tablespoon being 1/2 FL OZ, 8 FL OZ in a cup) while there are also just ounces (OZ) which are a subdivision of pounds which is a measurement of weight. Which, weight and mass aren't necessarily the same things.

Because cups are a volume measurement, 1 cup of brand X flour might be a different amount of grams than 1 cup of brand Z flour. Still though, 1 cup brand X == 1 cup brand Z == 1 cup butter == 1 cup maple syrup, when measuring in cups. Different amounts of mass, same amount of volume. Loads of people cooking at home don't really care that much, or they'll just standardize on one brand of flour so its pretty close every time. Or for the majority of the dry goods for baking they'll end up buying some form of mix to use that's already measured they just need to add butter/oil/eggs/water/whatever. Professional bakers and those who really care will use scales and go by mass/weight for their measurements and not by "cups" for things like flour.

Here's an example photo of a pretty typical stick of butter:

https://sweetsandthankyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Mea...

They'll pretty much always have marks for tablespoons. Some of these other markings on the wrapper will vary from brand to brand. Each stick is 8 tablespoons, which is 1/2 a cup. They are then sold in a box of 2-4 sticks, which is either 1 cup or 1 pint (a pint being 2 cups). Like this:

https://images.heb.com/is/image/HEBGrocery/000113910-1

I greatly prefer this pre-graduated way of selling a product like this which is pretty much the standard of normal butter sold. There are other butters and margarines which are sold in tubs or odd sized blocks, but those are usually marketed as "spreadable" butters or have things like honey or other stuff mixed in and really more like spreads rather than stuff you'd normally cook with. Not that you need imperial units to have pre-graduated packaging though, just saying its nice having it.

Its bad when a recipe calls for like 1 cup of peanut butter which is sold in jars by weight. Absolute mess trying to measure it by volume.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#233
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it disingenuous? I'd say perhaps hyperbolic or satirical. I remember a time when cars came with DVD players that wouldn't play if the car wasn't in park. People didn't like that so they worked around it. The lockout systems that you describe sound like the impetus for a market of bypasses. I would argue that if such restrictions are necessary then we should reconsider if the screen which necessitates them is neces…

> The lockout systems that you describe sound like the impetus for a market of bypasses. If we're talking about modifying and buying 3rd party changes then the car not even having a screen from the factory is within the same world of people making changes are bad with excessive touchscreen interaction while moving. We're no longer talking about whatever the OEMs are shipping.

I get your point, but I think it does create a lower bar to clear than if there were no screens at all. A software flash is quick, easy, and cheap compared to installing and integrating your own custom equipment. More people will pay $500 to unlock / replace their head units than would pay $5000 to have their screen-less car retrofit with one.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#234
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lockout systems that you describe sound like the impetus for a market of bypasses. If we're talking about modifying and buying 3rd party changes then the car not even having a screen from the factory is within the same world of people making changes are bad with excessive touchscreen interaction while moving. We're no longer talking about whatever the OEMs are shipping.

I get your point, but I think it does create a lower bar to clear than if there were no screens at all. A software flash is quick, easy, and cheap compared to installing and integrating your own custom equipment. More people will pay $500 to unlock / replace their head units than would pay $5000 to have their screen-less car retrofit with one.

How much does it cost to just suction cup a used iPad on to the dashboard? Or buy some double DIN Android-based head unit that fits in a 90's era car that'll play Netflix while on the road? Less than your $500 example?

If people are going to abuse it, they're going to abuse it. The car shipping with no screen might be even easier to abuse than one with everything in the car being routed through it.

On my old 2000 Accord replacing the headunit with one with a screen running regular Android was And this isn't limited to just EVs. My >5yr old Hyundai ICE also has a touch screen. Even though it has a lot of buttons, its hard to know what those buttons are doing without the screen and stock OS on it. Sure there's buttons to turn the temp up and down, but you don't actually know what you set it to except for the screen. There's no notification to what air vents are open except on the screen despite there being a button to change modes. Then there's a number of other settings and features to the car that are largely only configurable on the screen (while stopped). All of that goes away if you swap out the head unit on the car or end up flashing a custom Android build on it instead of whatever highly modified version Hyundai put on it.

Once again, if you're opening it up to people doing whatever modifications to it to be these distraction boxes with a budget of $500, then I guess a 1984 MR2 Spyder or a 1993 Ford Ranger or a 2000 Honda Accord also come into the fray as cars which could be modified to allow for distractions like your example.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hold on… butter is sold in sticks, marked in tablespoons, collected in boxes and split into cups? This is great work, you’re a creature after my own heart! This thing about cups is that 50g of flour = 50g of butter but 1 cup of flour does not equal 1 cup of butter. For me cups make sense for liquids but not for solids.

Cups are a volumetric measurement, not a mass measurement. 1 cup of flour == 1 cup of butter in the same way that 500mL of flour == 500mL of butter. You just don't normally measure flour in mL. This is confusing because there are fluid ounces (usually labeled as FL OZ) which are a measurement of volume and are subdivisions of cups (a tablespoon being 1/2 FL OZ, 8 FL OZ in a cup) while there are also just ounces (OZ)…

Valiant attempt but I remain pretty sure that cups as a measurement are insanity!

Also… butter with honey mixed in?? Is this also American?

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cups are a volumetric measurement, not a mass measurement. 1 cup of flour == 1 cup of butter in the same way that 500mL of flour == 500mL of butter. You just don't normally measure flour in mL. This is confusing because there are fluid ounces (usually labeled as FL OZ) which are a measurement of volume and are subdivisions of cups (a tablespoon being 1/2 FL OZ, 8 FL OZ in a cup) while there are also just ounces (OZ)…

Valiant attempt but I remain pretty sure that cups as a measurement are insanity! Also… butter with honey mixed in?? Is this also American?

Oh yes. It's quite delicious.

https://www.landolakes.com/products/butter-spreads/

Cinnamon sugar is very tasty on toast. I just picked up their Maple Me Crazy, it's nice to just quickly spread on a waffle when in a hurry to get out the door. Butters with herbs is pretty common, it's nice in a dinner roll or something like that. This isn't the only brand that makes products like this.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#237
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point, but I think it does create a lower bar to clear than if there were no screens at all. A software flash is quick, easy, and cheap compared to installing and integrating your own custom equipment. More people will pay $500 to unlock / replace their head units than would pay $5000 to have their screen-less car retrofit with one.

How much does it cost to just suction cup a used iPad on to the dashboard? Or buy some double DIN Android-based head unit that fits in a 90's era car that'll play Netflix while on the road? Less than your $500 example? If people are going to abuse it, they're going to abuse it. The car shipping with no screen might be even easier to abuse than one with everything in the car being routed through it. On my old 2000 Acc…

I have an aftermarket head unit like you describe, but I wouldn't have installed it if my car didn't already have a space for it in the dash and a whole harness wired and ready to connect. I leave it off unless I need to pull up a map.

Your point about being unable to use the features of your car if you replace the factory unit makes sense, but is that type of lock-in a good thing? Again, what if your screen breaks and now you don't know what your AC is set to? What else can't you operate in your car without the screen?

The existence of a screen conditions people to expect and depend on a screen. The manufacturer increasingly requires you to use it to operate the vehicle. There may not be shops advertising flashes yet, but I expect they'll come; that or legislation that prevents anyone from tampering with them.

You could make laws to discourage people from attaching devices to their dashboards and interacting with them, but it gets murky when all the cars come from the factory with a device already in the dashboard that you have no choice but to interact with.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#238
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does it cost to just suction cup a used iPad on to the dashboard? Or buy some double DIN Android-based head unit that fits in a 90's era car that'll play Netflix while on the road? Less than your $500 example? If people are going to abuse it, they're going to abuse it. The car shipping with no screen might be even easier to abuse than one with everything in the car being routed through it. On my old 2000 Acc…

I have an aftermarket head unit like you describe, but I wouldn't have installed it if my car didn't already have a space for it in the dash and a whole harness wired and ready to connect. I leave it off unless I need to pull up a map. Your point about being unable to use the features of your car if you replace the factory unit makes sense, but is that type of lock-in a good thing? Again, what if your screen breaks a…

> There may not be shops advertising flashes yet, but I expect they'll come

It's been over a decade since the first car that I bought new which had a touchscreen, and it wasn't a pricey high end car. When is this market going to come?

I do think it's not necessarily a good thing for all the stuff to be routed through the screen. I do agree there should be some amount of things operated by physical buttons and switches like gear selectors and turn signals and wipers and what not. But between my car with a ton of buttons and a tiny screen and my car with few buttons and a large screen, I'll take the one with the large screen every time.

The one with lots of buttons has a small screen, making it harder to put in an address or using it while stopped. It's harder to fully understand the navigation at a quick glance on the smaller screen. The vast majority of buttons are practically worthless wastes of space 90% of the time and really shouldn't be used while driving anyways.

> wouldn't have installed it if my car didn't already have a space for it in the dash

Well, there's not a spot to install one in either of my cars with screens in them, but all the cars which didn't have them were easily upgraded to have them. So once again it's easier today to play videogames while driving in my 2000 Accord than my Mach E on something "built-in" to the dash.

This is why I say your point is disingenuous. In a 1993 Ranger, today, I can spend $500 and do your distraction filled example. It would cost me many thousands to do it on either of my touchscreen cars, requiring massive, invasive modifications. This is true of every car I've owned which didn't have a touchscreen from the factory and every car with a touchscreen from the factory, for well over a decade.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#239
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an aftermarket head unit like you describe, but I wouldn't have installed it if my car didn't already have a space for it in the dash and a whole harness wired and ready to connect. I leave it off unless I need to pull up a map. Your point about being unable to use the features of your car if you replace the factory unit makes sense, but is that type of lock-in a good thing? Again, what if your screen breaks a…

> There may not be shops advertising flashes yet, but I expect they'll come It's been over a decade since the first car that I bought new which had a touchscreen, and it wasn't a pricey high end car. When is this market going to come? I do think it's not necessarily a good thing for all the stuff to be routed through the screen. I do agree there should be some amount of things operated by physical buttons and switche…

> When is this market going to come?

Maybe once enough people get stuck with a head unit they don't like, but can't change without a lot of cost because it's vital to the operation of the car. I do expect this to be a relatively small market, but who knows? I have an ECU and a TCU flash, they're performance modifications, but they do also modify the output on the small stock screen in the middle of my gauge cluster. I think the average consumer is more likely to buy a mod for their head unit than their engine, but whether enough people care for someone to make the mods is yet to be seen.

> In a 1993 Ranger, today, I can spend $500 and do your distraction filled example. It would cost me many thousands to do it on either of my touchscreen cars, requiring massive, invasive modifications.

The way I see it you could spend $500 and add a screen to any car, but if your car already contains screens then now you have n + 1 screens (where at least some of those n are necessary).

It's not really about whether you choose to integrate the screen into the dash (or anywhere else) or not, it's that the manufacturer already decided to do it for you. They started you off with n screens, they made you use them. If anything becomes possible, easier, faster, etc. to do on another device then you arrive at n + 1 screens. You can't control what people do, but you can start them with 0 necessary screens.

> The one with lots of buttons has a small screen, making it harder to put in an address or using it while stopped. It's harder to fully understand the navigation at a quick glance on the smaller screen.

Totally agree, gimme big map. That's why I changed my head unit; so I could stop using my phone for navigation. I'm not against big-ish "dedicated" map monitors, but I don't want them to become necessary for operating anything outside of the map and playing audio. I genuinely don't think they're better suited to driving related tasks than conventional gauges and controls.

Re: Car showed pop-up while driving

#240
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There may not be shops advertising flashes yet, but I expect they'll come It's been over a decade since the first car that I bought new which had a touchscreen, and it wasn't a pricey high end car. When is this market going to come? I do think it's not necessarily a good thing for all the stuff to be routed through the screen. I do agree there should be some amount of things operated by physical buttons and switche…

> When is this market going to come? Maybe once enough people get stuck with a head unit they don't like, but can't change without a lot of cost because it's vital to the operation of the car. I do expect this to be a relatively small market, but who knows? I have an ECU and a TCU flash, they're performance modifications, but they do also modify the output on the small stock screen in the middle of my gauge cluster.…

> If anything becomes possible, easier, faster, etc. to do on another device then you arrive at n + 1 screens

That's kind of the whole point of Android Auto/Carplay. New software feature out there? It's there. Things too slow for the features you want? New phone, faster CPU/GPU, new network connectivity, etc.

Even though my Hyundai is >5 years old it's running apps that were last updated yesterday. It's had a few UI changes, mostly for the better. It didn't take a new screen.

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