New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting • Hacker News Board

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#231

Post by salawat » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #144

HumblyTossed wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think these two scenarios are the same.

I agree, and was originally going to downvote the parent comment for the same reason, but then realized I think they were replying to this more general point in the GP's post: > "Do this only orally" is always to hide evidence from a future court discovery. That is, I've followed enough court cases and news reports to have seen things taken egregiously out of context to agree there could be valid reasons to limit dis…

Counterpoint:

What you're describing is still fine because a solid defense is to look at someone taking something out of context and going, "would you mind continuing reading?" where someone else follows up shooting down $controversial_thing because liability etc.

The only reason not to create that record in the first place is because you weren't interested in compliance from the get go, and you were banking on the "naive first violation" defense.

Been there, seen it in action, left because of it. Ethical abandonment, no matter how it is gussied up, is ethical abandonment. There is always time for doing what you should to keep your nose clean.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#232

Post by res0nat0r » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

Gud wrote: post #229

res0nat0r wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas are being called MAGAmobiles now that Musk bought Twitter and has shown his love for rightwing disinformation and keeps replying to and platforming alt-right racists and other neo-nazi adjacent folks.

Maybe in some tiny bubble, not in the actual world.

? https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=560664892&rlz=1C5GCEM_...

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#233

Post by stapedium » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #227

HPMOR wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having recently dealt with this very situation. Lawyers are honestly not __that__ expensive for these disputes and NDA’s are largely unenforceable.

>NDA’s are largely unenforceable source?

File a lawsuit to get them to lemon law the thing. Court testimony is public record that can’t be NDAd.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#234

Post by greenyoda » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

surfaceofthesun wrote: post #100

sixothree wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true that if a business states that “calls may be recorded” then no matter where you live, it’s legal to record the call as well.

I am not a lawyer. This has a nice summary: https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-call... If a business states that the call may be recorded, then they are already consenting. Therefore your recording would be the 2nd party consenting.

In the first paragraph on that page, it says:

"Determining which jurisdiction’s law controls in cases involving recording devices or parties in multiple states can be complex, so it is likely best to adhere to the strictest applicable law when in doubt, and/or get the clear consent of all parties before recording."

So it doesn't seem to be simple to determine what's legal in any given situation.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#235

Post by gruez » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 5:46 PM UTC

stapedium wrote: post #233

gruez wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>NDA’s are largely unenforceable source?

File a lawsuit to get them to lemon law the thing. Court testimony is public record that can’t be NDAd.

That doesn't mean NDAs are unenforceable. It just means you're getting them to fix the problem without signing their NDA, and presumably going through more hassle in the process.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#236

Post by stapedium » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 5:47 PM UTC

Reubachi wrote: post #228

zamalek wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mach E has a mere 40mi less range (290mi) and slightly better performance than the Model Y. They are also adding support for NACS (Tesla charger port) at some point soon. That's the only comparable EV that I know of at the price point, but there's definitely more.

Ford can't sell Mach Es to save their life, though, because they don't have ludicrous mode/800 HP/name appeal. Massive flop from Ford (and I say that as the biggest ford fanboy in this thread.) You and I know that the ford is made much better for "less", for obvious reasons But ask yourself, who is going to buy a heavy electric SUV from Ford? -a typical mustang GT buyer? No way. -a person who currently has a model S/…

Target market for the MachE is explorer and escape owners looking at EVs. Lightning and MachE aren’t anywhere close to the same price point.

# of MachEs at local dealer = 3

# of F150s sitting on lot >1 month = 50-100

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#237

Post by ImPostingOnHN » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 6:05 PM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #190

vel0city wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree its usually not good to sprinkle legal landmines in your email history, but FWIW the obviousness standard for US patents is someone "skilled in the art", so an expert working in that field finding it obvious is failing the obviousness test.

OK, but you get what parent post is saying. This particular example might have a technical answer but the overall point is that emails tend to lack context and are composed for brevity / convenience. "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu

it sounded like the overall point was that, by avoiding retained communications, they could get away with something they otherwise would not be able to get away with, and should not be able to get away with (patenting something obvious)

what sort of context could be added which exonerates that behavior?

if the context exonerates it, why not have a policy of including context?

if it's somehow benign, but cited out of context, why not just provide the context?

and, if such exonerating context doesn't exist, wouldn't society prefer they not get away with patenting something obvious?

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#238

Post by sangnoir » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

mrcwinn wrote: post #133

It's one car, so I don't want to pretend like it's every car, but certainly Tesla has earned a reputation at poor quality control. It seems obvious to me they optimize for factory output even at the cost of delivering a correct product. Anecdotally, a close friend had a Model S Plaid. He took delivery roughly a year after they were announced. Tesla forgot to install weather stripping in the frunk. "Flood" is too stro…

> It's one car, so I don't want to pretend like it's every car, but certainly Tesla has earned a reputation at poor quality control

This is like discovering one roach in your hotel room. Sure, you only have the evidence of the existence of the one roach, and it might be the only one in the entire chain of hotels - but what are the odds?

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#239

Post by scoofy » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

thejazzman wrote: post #181

drewg123 wrote: post #64

Sounds like not much has changed since 2015. A good friend ordered a new Model S in 2015. It arrived with a "squeak" that turned out to be due to missing welds in structural components of the chassis. They wanted him to sign an NDA to get a replacement vehicle (which he refused to do, both on principle, and because he'd talked to friends about it already). So he was forced to keep his vehicle, which was then repaired…

My 2015's battery "died" the day after the warranty was up. $15k for a refurbished battery from another old broken car. Once fixed, the cars resell value is at about $20k. And they took my battery back to sell to someone else for $15k. Definitely feel like a HUGE sucker for supporting them. This thing was $101k new.

I had a few very smart friends who were very successful in business at a young age. They all sort of celebrated having made it by buying high-end Audi’s when they were the hot luxury cars in the mid-2000’s.

The cars weren’t very reliable (even dumb shit like the electric windows would break) and the repairs were notably more expensive than they should have been. One of them explained that he finally understood that someone willing to pay triple the price of a standard car can be charged triple for repairs too.

He sold the luxury car and bought a Prius and said it was 100x better just because of how reliable it was, and it had the same bells and whistles anyway.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#240

Post by sangnoir » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

bityard wrote: post #168

specialist wrote: post #104

There's a learning curve parable about the fastest way to learn how to make quality clay pots. Team A focuses on making 1 perfect pot. Specifications, research, process, testing, verification, etc. They get pretty close with their initial pots, but they struggle to scale up. Team B just starts making pots. As fast they can. Make incremental tiny improvements. Most pots are total losses. But they do manage to start ma…

I would not bank on Kia or Hyundai... A large swath of of their engines made within the last decade or so have a reputation for not lasting within or much beyond the warranty period, which has lead to multiple class-action lawsuits. I have a Kia Sorento and overall it's a simple, honest car that's easy to work on and pretty well-built overall. But at 80k miles, the engine burns a quart every 1k miles which is entirel…

> A large swath of of their engines made within the last decade or so have a reputation for not lasting within or much beyond the warranty period

A warranty that is now of 10 years/100k miles (or 15 years/150k miles when extended). The value proposition of Kias, when you factor in features included as a standard, has never been greater, and is better than most other manufacturers.