Cost of doing business - just a really expensive phone plan for collusion.
"Think of it as an investment!"
Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
231–240 of 247 posts
Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
#232This won’t be fixed until bank executives are jailed. Otherwise they make more money than they are fined, so what is the incentive to stop?
I work at a bank. I could send some bullshit MNPI to a coworker via whatsapp and get my boss fired? Sweet!
"work at a bank" != "banking executives"
"some bullshit MNPI to a coworker" != billion-dollar collusion/schemes
"fired" != "jailed"
I'm afraid I'll never understand this class of refutation that categorically misunderstands every component of a sentence.
Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
#233How can they prove that business was discussed if records are not preserved
Presumably the same way my math teacher marked answers wrong when I didn't show my work.
Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think we should assume about your communications on encrypted channels? This entire thing is yet another federal effort to criminalize encrypted communications, and it even works on the HN crowd. All they have to say is "big banks bad" and people here go from freedom fighters to government pawns.
It's end to end encryption, as in, there are ends on each side where it is decrypted, usually for the humans to read. At the ends the records should have been maintained, the regulations aren't incompatible with E2E.
I'll respond to all three of you: yes it is difficult to retain all potentially work-related communications that take place on your employees' personal devices, so the alternative is to retain all communications.
It is absolutely incompatible with E2E encryption to mandate a third party access to one of the Es for surveillance purposes.
Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's a link to the actual press release: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-149 It makes no mention of evading regulation. This fine is for a failure to retain written communications. Which is impossible to do for some of these communications channels.
Not retaining written comms is evading regulations - "retain written comms" is one, and using Signal/WhatsApp is evading it. Nobody working in banking is unaware of the written comms rules. Nobody using Signal or WhatsApp in that context is unaware they can't retain written comms. Can you prove intent? Probably not. Is it clear as daylight why this happened? Uh, yes. And so the SEC hits them where it hurts at least a…
Keep on carrying water for the NSA. We can live in a total surveilace world just by triggering you with "banks are bad."
People use iMessage/Signal/WhatsApp for myriad reasons: some good, some bad. There's no evidence in this case that any of what was said was in furtherance of a crime. The crime they've been fined for is that people--just people--were talking in totally normal communications channels, and their employer has failed to scrape one end of their E2E communications and save it to show to the SEC whenever it asks.
Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
#236All the government needs to do to get HN on board with criminalizing encrypted communications is to implicate a bank. Bear in-mind, the SEC didn't find any actual criminal activity here. The banks just failed to retain the conversations that took place by their employees via encrypted channels (a necessary feature of encrypted communication).
It's up to the reader to speculate how much criminal activity took place in the conversations they failed to retain. I, for one, am certain it was all just brokers gabbing about American Idol.
You realize these are just people, right? People who work at banks are people like you and me. They can use iMessage to talk about whatever they want. Should we assume every single Google employee talking to another person in tech using iMessage was talking about how to subvert democracy or dark patterning a new scam? Or are they talking about what time dinner is, who's picking up the kids today, look at this meme, etc...
Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do iPhones have to do with this?
When I was working in the banking sector a lot of employees were provided with mobile phones to conduct business. If nowadays there is a requirement to record everything, how are voice calls are saved? In general for mobiles and in case of IPhones specifically.
Where I work you absolutely can't use a mobile phone to conduct business. Traders have dedicated lines and those are recorded. Traders also have chats which are also saved. The rest of staff uses teams or whatever. I assume that's recorded as well, but no one cares if you use something else.
Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp
#238Ha, in Europe WhatsApp is even used by doctors and teachers to discuss patient/student matters, and even some government offices use it. It's wild how entrenched it is in every aspects of society, from social to business. Goes to show you how far good UX, simplicity and ease of use can take you.
In Turkey when police stops you on a street they take photo of your ID card and then send those images through Whatsapp to a police station. And then you wait for an answer. Happens very often.
Is there not a way to query a database with the ID from a phone?
Why the extra steps?