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A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

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Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#231

Post by verve_rat »

satokema wrote: post #199

I walk to the store when it's reasonable. I wasn't top tier at it, but the most exercise I could tolerate was playing DDR, because there was a game to it that isn't just physical activity. These kinds of articles are always annoying because it invites a certain kind of person who will gush unendingly about how great exerting yourself is. For me, exerting myself sucks, it is only something I want to do when it's attac…

I feel very similar to you. Exercise is boring. And not the "I have to do the dishes and then the washing" boring. Real mind-numbing boredom.

So I've taken up hand tool only woodworking as a hobby. It keeps me active and allows me to trick myself into learning a new skill and having fun while making sure I won't die in 10 years time.

Exercise sucks, it really, really sucks. So work out some other thing that is exercise-like and try and trick yourself.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#232

Post by throw18376 »

sgtcodeboy wrote: post #21

Certainly can't speak for everyone, but the most effective form of exercise that I have found is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Couple of reasons. First: The deeper you get into it the more you learn its primarily an intellectual pursuit - its just hidden in a very physical endeavor. When I'm doing Jiu Jitsu, I have to actively think, engage my problem solving skills, I can't go on auto pilot as I do in other things - rowing m…

if you're not male, or are an older man (like >35), or are a child, being a BJJ novice looks like it must be a fun and welcoming environment. I think back before the boom times it may have been fun and positive for everyone.

if you're a younger man, it's a much more competitive environment. since MMA has become popular, there are a lot of guys coming in who did high school wrestling or maybe a little combatives in the Army -- so purportedly novices but in fact already quite skilled and fit. some of these have big macho attitudes and enjoy kicking your ass if you're an actual untrained beginner.

Being a good jiu jitsu teacher doesn't necessarily mean you're good at handling this dynamic. Some gyms handle this well, and BJJ gyms often have informal ways of "encouraging" this kind of guy to cool off but I noticed people don't always bring them out on behalf of a younger guy getting slammed around. So you either have to be a very fast learner or willing to be knocked around and embarrassed a lot more than the other students.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#233

Post by cpursley »

chaostheory wrote: post #92
cpursley wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not have access to the outdoors? Parks, paths, etc? The physical is only one aspect of it.

I do, but jogging the same streets and trails gets boring. It’s doesn’t have the variety and novelty that VR AR offers. It’s hard to understand this if you haven’t used it beyond 5 minutes. In the Bay Area, we’re blessed with multiple nature preserves that are beautiful and stunning, but it takes me 20-40 minutes one way just to drive to one so those hikes tend to be limited to weekends. With AR VR, I can instantly j…

A gym with a trainer or joining an indoor sports group is going to be way more satisfying than VR. And healthier socially and physically.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#234

Post by TeMPOraL »

ChatGTP wrote: post #229
hinkley wrote: post #2

I don’t know if this has changed for younger generations, but a lot of people, particularly those in intellectual pursuits, suffer to one degree or another from thinking of themselves as a brain being carried around as a meat sack. We are learning more about mind body connections and this is very not true (the ways the vagus nerve can totally fuck with your mental state is terrifying, and there are people with dysfun…

This is why I think all the "meatbags" and "hardware running on software" analogies are actually really primitive and silly, even though I know some find them funny. If we reduce ourselves to a bunch of "computers" there's not much left for the stuff that actually matters, like the actual awesomeness that is having a body, which is highly sensitive and able to experience amazing things.

> If we reduce ourselves to a bunch of "computers" there's not much left for the stuff that actually matters, like the actual awesomeness that is having a body, which is highly sensitive and able to experience amazing things.

This does not follow, except for stripping away the religious/spiritual part. Computers are amazing! So is hardware! And so is the dance of software and hardware that makes magic happen.

I've seen nothing so far in this whole thread that would convince me I should stop thinking about my body as the meatsack carrying my brain, as every argument I've read so far triggered my "religious/spiritual mumbo jumbo" detector quite hard.

This is not to say the body isn't an important and tightly integrated part of the experience. But the fact remains that a hand or a heart or a lung can be removed or replaced without loss of self. A brain can't.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#235

Post by TeMPOraL »

haswell wrote: post #39
jalino23 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get it. what do you mean by “ brain being carried around as a meat sack”? >> Any exercise where you think about your body as “you” what does it mean to think of my body as me? and can you provide examples of these exercises? thank you!

A lot of people feel like “they” are somewhere inside their head. They look out at the world through eyes that are windows. The world is out there, “I” am in here. In this undefined black hole of “me”, mysterious, but definitely separate from the world and what’s “out there” past one’s eyes. They feel like their bodies are just the mechanical thing that carries them around. They don’t think of the systemic impact of…

Let's flip this around: once you learn to drive, and then drive enough for it to become something you do unconsciously, is the car now part of "you" too?

If not, then I wouldn't use the embodiment/integration argument to define where "you" is, as the brain can learn to turn just about anything into extra limbs or senses, if you use it frequently enough.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#236

Post by Dalewyn »

safety1st wrote: post #198
mudita wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that made me transition from a mindset of “I have a body” to “I am a body”, was actually Zen meditation. This was surprising to me. Before I tried it, I thought of meditation as a purely mental thing, I didn’t expect that the first really noticeable effect of regular meditation would be a changed relationship to my body, Much later I discovered contemporary dance, quit my phd in machine learning and became…

From a non-spiritual, non-religious perspective, as an atheist I don't believe that souls exist, I don't subscribe to any religious teachings and I don't do any kind of meditative or spiritual stuff. That said, weight training completely transformed my relationship with my body. You can only lug a big hunk of iron into the air so many times before you start thinking about how much we really have in common with a gori…

>non-religious perspective, as an atheist

This is a completely off-topic tangent, but as a fellow non-religious person I'm sorry: Being non-religious and being an atheist are mutually exclusive positions.

Being non-religious means you are apathetic to religion thereof. God(s)? Souls? Afterlife? Commandments? Nope, you don't care about anything concerning religion one way or another.

Being atheist means you believe in no god, no souls, no afterlife, no commandments, and so on. This is, ironically, a form of religion. You care about believing in no religion.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#237

Post by lloeki »

safety1st wrote: post #198
mudita wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that made me transition from a mindset of “I have a body” to “I am a body”, was actually Zen meditation. This was surprising to me. Before I tried it, I thought of meditation as a purely mental thing, I didn’t expect that the first really noticeable effect of regular meditation would be a changed relationship to my body, Much later I discovered contemporary dance, quit my phd in machine learning and became…

From a non-spiritual, non-religious perspective, as an atheist I don't believe that souls exist, I don't subscribe to any religious teachings and I don't do any kind of meditative or spiritual stuff. That said, weight training completely transformed my relationship with my body. You can only lug a big hunk of iron into the air so many times before you start thinking about how much we really have in common with a gori…

> I don't subscribe to any religious teachings and I don't do any kind of meditative or spiritual stuff.

It sounds like you're conflating meditation-the-exercise with spiritual and religious approaches.

Fundamentally they are unrelated. Taking it to the extreme one can consider the mind to be a process produced by the brain+, no soul involved. Taken that way, meditation is no different than weight lifting. The same way a muscle+ specialises itself depending on training (endurance vs strength vs explosive vs volume) the brain (and thus the mind) also specialises in whatever it gets most exposed to. The same way one can lay out a physical workout plan for a specific desired outcome (including rest), one can lay out a mental workout plan for a specific desired outcome (including rest). The latter is meditation.

Meditation may exist in religious contexts, e.g Buddhist or Zen, but even then many forms are in practice detached from any religious belief, with no koan or mantra. e.g Ānāpānasati (sit, and simply watch the breath) and Sōtō shikantaza (meditation with no objects, anchors, or content, striving to be aware of the stream of thoughts, allowing them to arise and pass away without interference). These are fantastic tools to unlearn bad (sometimes traumatic) mental habits, just like one learns to have smooth but effective muscle action instead of being tense and twitchy and forcing it through.

+ I'm using "brain" as a shortcut for a system that is vastly more complex, just as I use "muscle" for a system that is equally as complex.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#238

Post by harry8 »

bratbag wrote: post #194
harry8 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone tells you about something that absolutely commands their total attention. It's of very little consequence to you. You suggest they try something /obvious/. It's reasonable to assume they might have considered it. How is that going to be perceived positively as a suggestion? Do you think it possible? For someone with major depression, maybe it's like suffering from major arterial bleeding and we suggest an ban…

My direct experience with depression was that escaping it required a combination of the right events at the right time to create an upward cycle. For me it was fixing a shower by myself that started that upward cycle. For someone else it could be a single exercise session that leads to it. It's always worth a try to encourage someone to take that first step.

>It's always worth a try to encourage someone to take that first step.

Sure, absolutely. While keeping in mind it may not even be possible today. If it is the obvious way may be counter-productive. And the road to hell being paved the way it is, accidentally kicking the crap out of someone who is well and truly down is probably worth at least trying to avoid.

I am very sorry that you went through that. Your experience may not translate universally to those afflicted with the wide variety of ailments that are all referred to as depression.

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#239

Post by nradov »

gcoakes wrote: post #168
nradov wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cycling and kayaking are great, but they don't deliver the repetitive impacts necessary to maintain high bone mineral density as we age. Have to add other sports to that mix.

Wait, the impact is beneficial? I've been worrying about running out of cartilage in my knees throughout my life. I had considered running to be a limited time thing that will just run out at some point.

The impact is beneficial and running won't damage your knees, at least if you're at a healthy weight. But other sports such as weight training, rucking, or certain martial arts might be more beneficial than running from a bone mineral density standpoint.

https://peterattiamd.com/ama37/

https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/will-continuing-to...

Re: A new study looks at how exercise can help alleviate anxiety and depression

#240

Post by tikk »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #99
hinkley wrote: post #2

I don’t know if this has changed for younger generations, but a lot of people, particularly those in intellectual pursuits, suffer to one degree or another from thinking of themselves as a brain being carried around as a meat sack. We are learning more about mind body connections and this is very not true (the ways the vagus nerve can totally fuck with your mental state is terrifying, and there are people with dysfun…

My brain is still "me" more than the meat sack I use to to ice skate, lift weights, and ski. I just think of my body more like a mech I can learn to pilot via telepathic control interface that gains sensitivity over time. I'll never be one of those athletes who lets go of conscious control and runs off muscle memory, but I've really enjoyed learning enough about my body that I can use it the way it was designed. It f…

> I'll never be one of those athletes who lets go of conscious control and runs off muscle memory.

Oh but you absolutely must try it! I assume being in the zone mentally is a familiar thing to you, so you really ought to try the physical equivalent!

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