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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

laquadrature.net

231–240 of 553 posts

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#231

Situation in France will not end well. Both rule of law and liberal democracy are increasingly damaged. Our institutions are so weak that we are one election away from a complete disaster. Our constitution always concentrated a lot of power in the hand of the president but there is no effective counter-power left. The government set multiple precedent that violate freedom of assembly and association and parliamentary…

> EU knows and complains about Poland & Hungary but France is going to be a shitshow of a far worse magnitude. I am French too and this sounds greatly exaggerated. Either you don't really know about the situation in Hungary or you have a very twisted view of what's happening in France (maybe induced by the medias). You should take a step back.

There is definitely a tendency to authoritarianism and confusionism from the current government, directed at political opposition.

"Security" laws extending the powers of the police and creating new ways to criminalize protest have been passed at a constant rhythm over the years since Sarkozy's time. After the state of urgency of 2015, part of the dispositions where simply put into law permanently.

Police has been increasingly violent during protests, bringing back old forbidden tactics and squads formerly dissolved for their violence (voltigeurs).

While there has been no dissolution of leftist movement and no political violence from the left since "action directe" in the 80's, there have been multiple ones (or attempts) in recent times, like the one from yesterday of an ecological movement.

Anti-terrorist laws are used to detain ecologists or protesters indefinitely, like in the case of the "8th november" affair from this topic, which has seen a person kept in solitary (hence, tortured) for 16 months without even being convicted.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#232
post #18
post #6

The key is that, while there is suspicion (the people arrested have a far left ideology, have been to Syria to fight against the Islamic state, own weapons and encrypt all of their communications), there is no crime nor proof of an intent to commit a crime . These people have been sent to prison because they are suspicious, not because of an action they have done (something made possible as a special case of an older…

The law doesn't say being suspicious is criminal, but that organising with the intent to commit terrorism is, and that's what the prosecutor's will have to prove. The real, actual problem is the unlawful detention. > And, amongst other things, using Signal and Linux with the encryption-on settings are explicitly listed as some of the things making them suspicious in the eyes of the law. In combination with other thin…

> have you organised illegal activities through encrypted chat communications

If I did, why in hells name would I tell you?

Why would you ask that in the first place? To catch out the incredibly dumb terrorists?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#233

Situation in France will not end well. Both rule of law and liberal democracy are increasingly damaged. Our institutions are so weak that we are one election away from a complete disaster. Our constitution always concentrated a lot of power in the hand of the president but there is no effective counter-power left. The government set multiple precedent that violate freedom of assembly and association and parliamentary…

> EU knows and complains about Poland & Hungary but France is going to be a shitshow of a far worse magnitude. I am French too and this sounds greatly exaggerated. Either you don't really know about the situation in Hungary or you have a very twisted view of what's happening in France (maybe induced by the medias). You should take a step back.

[flagged]

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#234
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday the French government dissolved an environmental movement (which I don't like btw), amongst the reasons stated[0] are that they leave their phones at home or switch them off, refuse to talk to the police when arrested, or even that they organize their protest over the internet. When accused of authoritarian tendencies the government usually answers "go to China or North Korea to see what a dictatorship is l…

They have not been dissolved because they left their phone at home, they have been dissolved because it was a violent organisation that was systematically attacking the police and destroying property. And given the sort of stuff they brought to their protests: swords, machettes, baseball bats, jerrycan, bricks, fireworks, petanque balls, Molotov cocktails, fire bombs, etc, it is particularly disingenuous to pretend t…

They indeed sometimes destroyed some properties

But you cannot blame them for the violence in the protest they co-organized. People are free to attend the protest, and they cannot control them. They never called for violence against police. And most protest now in France have some people fighting with the police.

The same way you can see firefighters throwing stuff (including petanque ball) to police during firefighers protest. But you cannot blame the firefigheter union for this.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> self defense is pretty much only valid if you had no other option. Running away is a good idea for many reasons, but very few US states or foreign jurisdictions have a duty to retreat as you’re describing here.

Good thing this was in the context of France, then.

And France is among the overwhelming majority of legal jurisdictions around the world that do not have a duty to retreat.

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#236
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Macron is not a fan of theses social policies, he is right leaning. His governement reduced labor protections, butchered educations, worsened public healthcare, and do nothing for the environment.

Economically right-leaning but culturally left-leaning, he's let in tens of thousands of migrants, does not expel them (cf. the "OQTF" stories pretty much every day), and on top of that, uses taxpayers money to fund them throughout the country.

> Economically right-leaning but culturally left-leaning.

Ah yes, the current political Trojan horse.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#237
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gilets jaunes or blocking whatever have anything to do with violating parliamentary rights ? Or making protests of disappointment (edit: disapproval) illegal everywhere the president go ? What can anyone do about a president that abuses its power ? This is a basic democratic issue and I am pessimistic because a lot of people like you just don't seem to get it, so we won't address that and when it is going to be…

> making protests of disappointment illegal everywhere the president go France is big enough. Having to avoid a few square kilometres around the president will leave you plenty of space to organize your protest.

Next law: protest as much as you want but out of sight. In your own cellar maybe? Ok that was sarcasm, but the very point of a protest is to be visible. Same with all Last Generation or such protests: if they had simply marched on some side street, nobody would talk about them today.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I say is that IF France becomes an illiberal democracy, it is going to be far worse for EU than what happened in Hungary. Hungary and France are absolutely not on the same scale

Wait for the next election in Germany. AfD has just climbed to the 2nd place with 20% of support and is still growing. Believe or not, one day you will miss someone like Orban.

Germany power is less centralized, with more powerful counter-power than Hungary , reducing the risk of seeing an Orban like situation.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I say is that IF France becomes an illiberal democracy, it is going to be far worse for EU than what happened in Hungary. Hungary and France are absolutely not on the same scale

Wait for the next election in Germany. AfD has just climbed to the 2nd place with 20% of support and is still growing. Believe or not, one day you will miss someone like Orban.

The situation is a bit less dire than that thankfully.

2/3rds of AfD supporters claim to be doing it as a protest vote. And that they don't support the AfD. Just like with brexit.

There's still time for an alternative before all of Europe goes in with fascism again.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#240
post #95
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation in France is dire and crazy. This will not end well.

I have had well-educated French acquaintences telling me for a decade that France is ripe for a new system of government; the 6th in its history. Many current problems stem from the fact that post-war mechanisms written into the governmental system are abused by the president and elected leaders. E.g. presidential overruling of parlamental votes.

> the 6th in its history.

I assume they were alluding to the fact that the current French state is called the “Fifth Republic” but there were various non-Republic regimes as well so it would actually be more than the 6th “system of government”.

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