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Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

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Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#231

Post by rodgerd »

paxys wrote: post #153
mpolichette wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers were invented to speed up calculations, and yet the primary thing we use them for today is to read the news and send each other messages and memes… I think it’s totally reasonable, to expect developers to find the real use

Computers had a 100% open platform from day 1. Tell me, will Apple allow a pornography app for the Vision Pro?

> Computers had a 100% open platform from day 1.

The first computers were operated by the British and US defence establishments. Could you explain in which way you feel ENIAC was "100% open platform"?

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#232

Post by astrange »

jedberg wrote: post #94
astrange wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I just mean it's hard to do AR if you're getting paint on the AR camera. I guess you could just keep swapping protective covers. Although it might not matter - even cracks on a camera lens affect the picture less than you'd think, because they're out of focus.

Or just wipe it off.

I assume some of the things you'd want to wipe off need cleaning agents that would also remove the anti-fingerprint coating. Which I'm assuming exists.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#233

Post by SamuelAdams »

paxys wrote: post #192

Despite people always posing this as a “chicken and egg” problem, in reality there is never going to be a fledging developer ecosystem without first getting users on the platform. You can see the same in all of Apple’s own past product launches, iPhone included. Unless they can figure out a way to get the Vision Pro into the hands of millions of active users, I doubt they will get big time developer effort behind it.

Windows Phone had the same problem. Not enough users because there were not enough apps because there were not enough users.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#234

Post by SirSourdough »

woeirua wrote: post #119
EwanG wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presumption, from an investing standpoint anyway, is that working on this version will give you a first mover advantage for a V2 in two years that will have slightly upgraded chips, similar display, and cost half as much.

Half as much is still no where close to where they need to be to get mass market adoption.

I don't really understand this assessment. Half as much is $1,750. That's really not much compared to what people are willing to pay for Apple devices. Basically the price point of an iPad Pro, and I think the potential of the Vision Pros is much higher than the potential of the iPad. It's just a matter of whether they can realize some commercial use-cases like with the iPad.

The Vision Pro is marketed as a device with the potential to replace or significantly augment a laptop and/or TV for a lot of users (I understand there are presently some asterisks needed there). And that's assuming no other novel, high value uses emerge.

Apple sells something like 7 million MacBooks per quarter. Many of them are well more than $2000. I don't think a $2,000 price point is a crazy barrier if the device is able to live up to what it could be.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#235

Post by prawn »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #136
lnrd wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is a first iteration specifically made for developer to start to get their app running, so that when the consumer less expensive model will be released a couple of years down the line there's already an app ecosystem ready. It's a strategic release aimed at devs and early adopters, the consumer level device will come in the future at a complete different price point. That's when mass customer adoption mi…

"so that when the consumer less expensive model will be released a couple of years down the line there's already an app ecosystem ready." .... You think that developers are going to create a thriving ecosystem of apps when there's no market until several years down the line? Bit of a Chicken or the egg problem isn't it?

Did they say thriving? They will be the initial foray. There will be enough of a market for early creators (like Apple TV which had small numbers) but reduced competition. The early creators will have some return, reputation and experience to carry through for when the audience grows.

It won't be the opening of floodgates, but I think it will be interesting enough.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#236

Post by thegginthesky »

scarface_74 wrote: post #221
skeeter2020 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your computers were tools for building... anything, and the manufacturers (especially Apple back then) actually educated, promoted and rewarded amazing things. This is a consumer device tightly coupled to the most restrictive ecosystem we've ever seen. Doesn't seem like a hackers' playground.

I paid $10 a month to distribute my little freeware on AOL in college so normal people could access it. I also submitted it to info-Mac archive via ftp. I would have gladly paid $99 a year for the bragging rights of putting my app on the iOS App Store so anyone could get it. I paid for a 65C02 compiler back in mid 80s using my allowance and paid for a Mac C compiler in the early 90s. My parents were solidly middle cl…

The point isn't paying to publish apps, the point is that you can't hack into it if this is anything like iOS.

If this runs a version of iOS, we can't access the code that is running in it, we can't open a terminal, we can't use our programing language of choice. We can't use the actual device for building anything hacker related by itself.

We can make apps for it using an actual PC made for building, but only if it runs MacOS, ans using their proprietary language. The actual device is far from a hackers dream or plaything if its as locked up as the iPhone. But very cool device though, hopefully it brings VR into Mainstram outside of gaming

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#237

Post by prawn »

lnrd wrote: post #101
woeirua wrote: post #95

I think it's very important for people to get out of the HN bubble when discussing this. $3500 is just way too expensive for mass customer adoption. Meta is struggling to get customers to adopt the Oculus hardware when its an order of magnitude less expensive. I can't see why _any_ developer would sink tons of money into building custom apps on this platform when there will be less than a few hundred thousand users n…

Because this is a first iteration specifically made for developer to start to get their app running, so that when the consumer less expensive model will be released a couple of years down the line there's already an app ecosystem ready. It's a strategic release aimed at devs and early adopters, the consumer level device will come in the future at a complete different price point. That's when mass customer adoption mi…

I agree with this.

Meta's attempts are currently limited because the sticky use cases seem to be fitness and a little bit of gaming. When you have a device that is viable for some level of work, it's a somewhat easier sell. Apple will be testing this for work (and hybrid remote work) with staff and will have a strong idea as to how viable this is going forward.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#238

Post by rchaud »

spacebanana7 wrote: post #83
astrange wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who spend $3500 on a headset are industrial/professional users who will make more than $3500 in value for it. That is why Microsoft HoloLens, and a lot of commercial AR products you've never heard of, cost even more.

Apple is a consumer brand. The same people who buy $5000 sneakers or handbags may well buy a vision headset. The brand + price tag is enough to sell at least a few thousand Vision units regardless of technical specifications.

They accomplished that with the iPhone, which is small, sleek, metallic....a status symbol like jewellery or a fine watch. It's not imposing, it doesn't overshadow your outfit. AVP is the complete opposite of all that.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#239

Post by prawn »

astrange wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #45

I'm not skilled enough to do it myself, but I can't wait for the AR apps to help with physical skills, especially things like art. I do ceramics on the wheel, and having an app that can show me techniques, highlight areas that are thin or weak, critique my technique in real time, and so on, would be something I would definitely pay for. Same with painting. I can't wait to see the AR apps!

Both of those things seem like they have a chance of splattering on the cameras.

I watched a video compilation of VR headset mishaps (running into walls, hitting things, etc) and I think that most Vision Pro users will be a lot more reserved in their use. Apple's promotional collateral showed fairly static use cases: couch, standing near a desk, etc.

I'm keen on trying it or getting one, but I have zero interest in using it while cooking or similar.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#240

Post by prawn »

bagels wrote: post #16

Apple expects to sell 150k units next year. I'm sure there will be a couple of popular apps, but beyond those couple, what is the financial incentive to develop for it?

More than a couple of apps. I'd guess there are a handful of viable opportunities in each of many categories - music, productivity, particular game genre, etc. Many developers will port existing iOS/Mac apps, even if just to work in the 2D iPad mode.
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