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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#231

Post by mey »

EddieJLSH wrote: post #186
cpleppert wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox controllers are used to control the periscope which is not a safety critical device. Regardless, the navy uses wired controllers and did extensive testing and verification. This outfit didn't do anything like that; in one video with a journalist the bluetooth controller was a 'feature' because they could pass it around the sub.

US UAV/Drones use xbox controllers too

There was video floating around of a machine gun turret being remote controlled using the Valve Steamdeck in Ukraine.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/steam-deck-controls-a-real...

Edit: consumer joysticks normally use potentiometers, which aren't great for deadzones/drift. For things like dust incursion reasons along it would make sense for any industrial/military device to be using hall effect based joysticks.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#232

Post by MSFT_Edging »

EddieJLSH wrote: post #186
cpleppert wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox controllers are used to control the periscope which is not a safety critical device. Regardless, the navy uses wired controllers and did extensive testing and verification. This outfit didn't do anything like that; in one video with a journalist the bluetooth controller was a 'feature' because they could pass it around the sub.

US UAV/Drones use xbox controllers too

Unmanned, if anything a controller failing will save some lives.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#233

Post by laurent123456 »

Strom wrote: post #19
tredre3 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe using mass market makes sense. I don't understand the criticism I've seen on this website for using off the shelf controllers or camping lights (what do you expect, an LED strip magically engineered by a large aeronautics firm specifically for the sub? and what would that change?). That being said, the difference between a Microsoft controller and a third party is that Microsoft very certainly di…

Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. That said, Logitech does make products in a wide price range and the low end isn't competitive with their own high end.

Even high end Logitech peripherals aren't exactly great. I bought a Logitech wireless keyboard with backlighting a few years ago. It was nice but there was some hardware bug and when not in use the lights would be flashing all day and night until the batteries run out [0]. I certainly hope their gamepads are more energy efficient than that!

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/LogitechG/comments/pt0fkp/logitech_...

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#234

Post by TX81Z »

srmarm wrote: post #3

The US Navy uses an Xbox 360 controller in active service [0] Mass market has a lot of R&D to leverage so it makes sense. Nothing to say this is the cause of the fault and probably going to be more reliable than something hand rolled. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military...

Fun fact: DOD likes game pads because soldiers all play videos game since birth and it requires the least training.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#236

Post by giantg2 »

EddieJLSH wrote: post #186
cpleppert wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox controllers are used to control the periscope which is not a safety critical device. Regardless, the navy uses wired controllers and did extensive testing and verification. This outfit didn't do anything like that; in one video with a journalist the bluetooth controller was a 'feature' because they could pass it around the sub.

US UAV/Drones use xbox controllers too

Unmanned, and they have logic to autopilot in most cases.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#237

Post by Razengan »

analog31 wrote: post #173
Karupan wrote: post #165

According to the NYTimes, OceanGate refused to undergo any sort of external audit/certification process [0]. I would imagine using an off the shelf, cheap controller would have been one of the first things to be flagged. Makes you wonder how many other critical components did they skimp on [0] https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/06/20/us/titanic-missing-s...

This is what actually amazes me. The reliability of something like an airplane, bus, or train, is held to extremely high engineering standards. There are even safety rules for bicycles. But you're allowed to take people for rides in a submarines with barely any oversight.

How else would Cthulhu be kept pacified?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#238

Post by giantg2 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #208
dmonitor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't afford to qualify the components on your 4000m diving vehicle, you can't afford to make a 4000m diving vehicle. See: the fact that they lost their diving vehicle.

Pressure hull >> ballast control >> thrusters >> everything else I'm not sure why everyone is taking potshots at a company for trying something crazy with willing passengers . Everyone involved knew what they were getting into. Kudos to them for trying, even if they're dead. > See: the fact that they lost their diving vehicle. That's an awful lot of keyboard engineering, given nobody knows what happened yet.

"Everyone involved knew what they were getting into."

Did they? I might have missed that part.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#239

Post by mcbutterbunz »

analog31 wrote: post #173
Karupan wrote: post #165

According to the NYTimes, OceanGate refused to undergo any sort of external audit/certification process [0]. I would imagine using an off the shelf, cheap controller would have been one of the first things to be flagged. Makes you wonder how many other critical components did they skimp on [0] https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/06/20/us/titanic-missing-s...

This is what actually amazes me. The reliability of something like an airplane, bus, or train, is held to extremely high engineering standards. There are even safety rules for bicycles. But you're allowed to take people for rides in a submarines with barely any oversight.

Likely due to two things:

1) Many more people fly or bike than ride in submarines.

2) Regulations are written in blood. Too many of these types of accidents and then safety rules will be established and enforced (hopefully).

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#240

Post by michaelt »

vlod wrote: post #35
silisili wrote: post #8

Stupid question, perhaps: was/it possible for this sub to have any kind of beaconing or communication system that works at depth? It seems like one of this first things I'd investigate before deciding to build a sub.

I was wondering how naval submarines work when they get in trouble. I would expect to see some sort of emergency button (internally) that you could press, that would release some sort of buoy, that would float to the surface and start transmitting with gps etc. I think that would help narrow down the search. The buoy would be in an external container (to prevent pressure problems), with explosive bolts or something t…

For an tragic but well documented example, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster

”The submarine's emergency rescue buoy had been intentionally disabled during an earlier mission and it took more than 16 hours to locate the sunken boat, which rested on the ocean floor at a depth of 108 m (354 ft).”

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