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3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

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Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#231

Post by mint2 »

JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #214
Miraste wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cast-iron is a huge pain to maintain in my experience, but ceramic pans are a good non-carcinogenic alternative.

I feel compelled to back you up on this one. You mention your experience with cast iron, and 20 semi-pro internet chefs jump all over you to gaslight you with "you just didn't season it properly bro" No. I polymerized it with the grapeseed oil. I tried it with sunflower oil. I polymerized until my apartment swirled with smoke. I wiped it down with nothing besides a paper towel and water. I followed youtube guides. No…

Welp the method that doesn’t slowly poison our environment or kill our parrots is less convenient, guess we have no choice but to layer on the forever Chemicals.

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#232

Post by NickC25 »

sokoloff wrote: post #190
NickC25 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for taking my points in good faith - others have not done the same (or to your points either). Upvoted. > Why is it not the best idea? It's a great idea. Fine them more money and let them go bankrupt. It's not good politics, unfortunately. The political actors that have the will to do such a thing would get trounced by the next "pro business" candidate, and a lot of Americans would back such a candidate no mat…

> if they don't have enough money to pay the fine, who is on the hook for the remaining damages? No one. The remaining damages go uncollected as there is no one to collect them from. Shareholders, bondholders, and junior creditors are wiped out of their ownership stake in 3M and the 3M company would cease to exist.

And see - that's my issue. The fact that real people will still be fucked and unable to pay real medical costs associated with 3M's actions, yet the company and its shareholders can just say "oh, no more money, sorry" and wipe their hands.

I get the legal concept of Limited Liability, and appreciate why it's a thing, but I also get a really bad taste in my mouth if a corporation willingly and knowingly causes mass harm and doesn't face the full consequences for its actions.

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#233

Post by omnicognate »

JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #223
krisroadruck wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally just cook with it. The main thing with everything except for teflon pans is you need to bring them up to temp before cooking, and you need to use some fat of some kind (olive oil, butter, whatever). The oil itself will provide the "non stick" until it's seasoned, and it'll also do the seasoning. You can waste a bunch of time doing seasoning as a separate step (light coating of oil, bring up to smoke point,…

> Literally just cook with it. Lmao. Hapless beginner follows your advice, decides to scramble some eggs on day 1 with his badly-factory-seasoned Lodge pan. Egg glue now encrusts his shiny new pan. What do? Wash with soap? BAD NOOB - that's bad for the seasoning. Scrape it off with steel wool? BAD NOOB - that's even worse for the seasoning. (If you do this, fellow noob, I think oil + a scrubber sponge got me out of t…

Yes, scrambled eggs works wonderfully in a cast iron skillet but it needs to be well worn in. On a new pan you'll end up with an awful mess. But feel free to go to town on that with washing up liquid, steel wool and a sandblaster if you want. There isn't some magical pixie dust on it you need to worry about rubbing off. Just dry it properly after and oil it before you put it away. Keep frying in it regularly and it'll be fine. A brief hiccup in your skillet's breaking-in process.

Edit: In fact we had scrambled eggs as part of dinner this evening (with rice, chilli crisp, garlic mushrooms and bak choi) and the pan is currently in the sink full of water, where it will remain until tomorrow morning because it's Friday night, dammit, and it will be fine.

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#234

Post by jeff-davis »

eesmith wrote: post #165
jeff-davis wrote: post #88

If the chemicals are bad, and everywhere, we need a reaction time faster than 50 years. For new inventions (not well-known issues), it would be far better to be fast-reacting and no-fault rather than slow-reacting with vengeance. Run studies as the use of the chemicals scales up and start raising warnings early so the company has time to collect more information and adapt formulas or applications. As the costs become…

> Run studies as the use of the chemicals scales up and start raising warnings early so the company has time to collect more information and adapt formulas or applications Part of the issue, and why this is 'existential', is that 3M appears to have known about the issues and deliberately hid the studies from the government or downplayed them. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per-_and_polyfluoroalkyl_subst... citing…

If you depend on the company making the chemical to do studies and be transparent about them, of course the reaction time will be bad. You need independent studies and environmental monitoring.

The blame game gives the politicians and bureaucrats a nice excuse for inaction, and not much else. And 50 years later it just looks ridiculous.

Sure, if someone does something bad, blame may be a part of the response. But you need good outcomes first and foremost, not bad outcomes and blaming.

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#235

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

mint2 wrote: post #231
JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel compelled to back you up on this one. You mention your experience with cast iron, and 20 semi-pro internet chefs jump all over you to gaslight you with "you just didn't season it properly bro" No. I polymerized it with the grapeseed oil. I tried it with sunflower oil. I polymerized until my apartment swirled with smoke. I wiped it down with nothing besides a paper towel and water. I followed youtube guides. No…

Welp the method that doesn’t slowly poison our environment or kill our parrots is less convenient, guess we have no choice but to layer on the forever Chemicals.

Stainless steel doesn't poison the environment, easily fries sunny-side-up eggs without sticking if you let it get hot first, and can go in the dishwasher.

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#236

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #223
krisroadruck wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally just cook with it. The main thing with everything except for teflon pans is you need to bring them up to temp before cooking, and you need to use some fat of some kind (olive oil, butter, whatever). The oil itself will provide the "non stick" until it's seasoned, and it'll also do the seasoning. You can waste a bunch of time doing seasoning as a separate step (light coating of oil, bring up to smoke point,…

> Literally just cook with it. Lmao. Hapless beginner follows your advice, decides to scramble some eggs on day 1 with his badly-factory-seasoned Lodge pan. Egg glue now encrusts his shiny new pan. What do? Wash with soap? BAD NOOB - that's bad for the seasoning. Scrape it off with steel wool? BAD NOOB - that's even worse for the seasoning. (If you do this, fellow noob, I think oil + a scrubber sponge got me out of t…

Washing cast iron with soap is really fine. Actual seasoning doesn't come off with dish soap.

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#237

Post by ravi-delia »

sneak wrote: post #99
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vigilante justice died down with the phase out of leaded gasoline. One of the effects of people not being so violent and impulsive anymore is that people are not so violent and impulsive anymore

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

Uncle Ted had plenty of time for exposure to lead, there have got to be hundreds of better domestic terrorists for you to choose from

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#238

Post by thevagrant »

JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #225
AnonCoward42 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's definite leaching of plastic compounds into food, which gets exacerbated when heated. My concern is the number of unknown unknowns. BPA became a big part of the consciousness a few years ago, and now it's PFAs, but what else? PFAS and BPA are not used for (multi-use) food containers I think. Don't get me wrong! Avoiding throwaway packaging, where possible, absolutely makes sense. I specifically mean to find…

> Glass breaks faster than plastic containers (usually) The plastic lids always break way more quickly than the glass containers IME. Can't remember the last time I broke a glass one, actually. Plus, they actually stay in good condition. An abused plastic container will cloud, warp, gouge, and release god knows what into your food the whole time.

I tend to buy ones with glass lids by a french company named O'cuisine. The glassware has held up over the years and didn't cost very much

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#239

Post by r00fus »

Sytten wrote: post #14
pcurve wrote: post #9

The chemicals in question are of type PFAS and believe it or not, they're still legal to use today, though they're being phased out and banned in a few years. The problem is 3M scientists have know toxicity to human and have withheld the information to the public and regulators. Since 1970s.

They are used in all kinds of products that I personaly use everyday from pans to dental floss. And the replacements are not better, they just dont have studies yet that prove they are toxic...

Switch to silk floss - this is just a better version of anything you can get with PFAS: https://madebyradius.com/products/natural-biodegradable-silk...

You can get it on Amazon too - price is the same as Glide, Reach, etc.

Re: 3M heads to trial in ‘existential’ $143B forever-chemicals litigation

#240

Post by bagacrap »

JPws_Prntr_Fngr wrote: post #214
Miraste wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cast-iron is a huge pain to maintain in my experience, but ceramic pans are a good non-carcinogenic alternative.

I feel compelled to back you up on this one. You mention your experience with cast iron, and 20 semi-pro internet chefs jump all over you to gaslight you with "you just didn't season it properly bro" No. I polymerized it with the grapeseed oil. I tried it with sunflower oil. I polymerized until my apartment swirled with smoke. I wiped it down with nothing besides a paper towel and water. I followed youtube guides. No…

I bought a $25 pre seasoned lodge cast iron and it's been very easy and low maintenance.

I bought a couple carbon steel pans I had to season myself and they're a constant nightmare.

You may want to try again with a different brand.

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