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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#231

Post by lost_tourist »

FranksTV wrote: post #218
lucasyvas wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naming individuals is the best solution because it will create the appropriate infighting to resolve the issue. It will be a huge mess, but it will come to resolution sooner.

I think you're underestimating the arbitrary cruelty of the internet. Naming people just paints a target on them.

Particularly with tech people who are well known to blow up and dox individuals and do even worse things based on a rumor, let alone someone who really knows confirming it. There are a lot of bad actors in tech who love doing that stuff when they get someone with a target placed on them.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#232

Post by gishbunker »

nomel wrote: post #213
gishbunker wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is in the minority, it's totally reasonable to ask, "could their minority status be a factor in their disenfranchisement?" Then you look at the data, and in this case come to the conclusion, "no, it was not a factor." That seems healthy and normal, it's not outrage bait to acknowledge that yes, sometimes minorities are at a disadvantage or are under represented. It's just as fallacious to say "of course ra…

> sometimes minorities are at a disadvantage or are under represented What does “under represented” mean, in a small, hopefully merit based, org?

Exactly what it says on the tin. Where do rustconf/rust lang leadership diverge from rust users. If 40% of rust devs are women, but only 10% of leadership is women, they are an under represented group in leadership.

There might be reasonable reasons! The existence of an under represented group isn't wrong, it's just a time to ask, "why is it this way?"

To be clear, I'm not saying there should be no under represented groups. But if there are, we should just be deliberate about understanding why. Are there systemic reasons where merit isn't being considered?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#234

Post by twic »

rustthrow wrote: post #3

> The recent incident with ThePHD’s keynote downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully, but… if that’s what it looks like from the outside, and any form of official communication is still days or weeks away, does it really make a difference? yes! it does! we can't keep framing everything as race, gender, or orientation related. people have to have basic filters for what the most important issue is in a situatio…

You should have called this account rustreturnerr.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#235

Post by gishbunker »

CrazyStat wrote: post #173
gishbunker wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bug. Bugs happen. Systems are still systems whether they deal with people or code. When big bugs happen, we evaluate why, and improve the system so it performs better next time. We don't blame people, we focus on what allowed people to make bad decisions. In this case, it sounds like a bad decision making process that needs a patch.

Sure, but if you don't have authority to make the patch, and especially if this sort of thing has happened repeatedly--as the linked post suggests--sometimes it's easier and better for your sanity to just leave the system.

100%. That's why I ducked out of the boy scouts, why I ducked out of Amazon, why I ducked out of my abusive family.

Some things you do have to step away from.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#236

Post by lost_tourist »

serial_dev wrote: post #53

these things keep happening and it shows a deeper problem with rust leadership and unaccountability. Just like with the trademark policy fiasco just a month ago (which was also not the first Rust Drama), every community member - from speakers to organizers and regular language users - is confused, frustrated, feeling unappreciated with very slow official response and clarification. I don't want witch hunting, I under…

It really seems from what I've read over time, there are a tight core oligarchy of 4 or 5 people who think they are the end all be all of decision making and everyone else be damned. They will defend each other against all outsiders. I've seen this on other committees, it's never pretty when it finally comes crashing down around their heads. I hope this doesn't continue to tarnish the reputation of rust as a great language to learn and expand upon.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#237

Post by armchairhacker »

dehrmann wrote: post #125
armchairhacker wrote: post #56

I think this Rust drama is way over-exaggerated. One community member made one decision for one conference which they probably thought wouldn't be a big deal (I understand now that it is, but to an outsider "keynote downgraded to regular presentation" don't seem like much). And now multiple people are leaving the Rust team, and some random commentators are "disgraced" by the Rust Project, and "threatening" to stop us…

I have no knowledge beyond what's been on Hacker News today, but usually these blowups are over longstanding tensions, even though it looks like an overreaction on the surface.

Still, not doing anything and then suddenly blowing up isn't a good reaction.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#238

Post by Quillbert182 »

psychphysic wrote: post #147
serial_dev wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised how people pretend to be outraged over a fork of an open source language. They are outraged by the fork because having a fork reach thousand stars so quickly made it harder to ignore the reality that people who love the language were fed up with the leadership. Forking is the essence of open source software. Don't like something somebody else is doing with a software? It's open source, so you do it you…

I flicked through the GitHub and website. Is crablang a fork of Rust? Is Rust a plant fungus? Edit: yes and apparently yes. They take great lengths not to name rust which is interesting for a fork.

I believe the fork was created in response to a draft of a new trademark policy released by the Rust Foundation which included some portions about where the word “rust” could be used, so they are going out of their way to avoid using the word in order to prove a point.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#239

Post by [deleted] »

rustthrow wrote: post #3

> The recent incident with ThePHD’s keynote downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully, but… if that’s what it looks like from the outside, and any form of official communication is still days or weeks away, does it really make a difference? yes! it does! we can't keep framing everything as race, gender, or orientation related. people have to have basic filters for what the most important issue is in a situatio…

[deleted]

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#240

Post by zzzzzzzza »

jeremyjh wrote: post #134
denvercoder904 wrote: post #95

It's not JeanHeyd Meneide's (PhD) first time rage quitting. He has a history of this. He previously rage quitted from the C++ community and moved to the C community. I wonder where he's moving to next. https://youtu.be/vaLKm9FE8oo

So we should blame the victim?

https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235124.html
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