Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I Left Rust

jntrnr.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 880 posts

Re: Why I Left Rust

#231

Post by sidlls »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #169

Is it just me, or is this a lot of melodrama for a language. I love arguing over technical details, this seems more like "house wives of rust".

The Rust community (in aggregate; I'd hope I wouldn't need to state the obvious that it doesn't apply to all individuals, but...Rust community) fosters this sort of melodrama.

There is a core of extremely zealous "Rust wins all the things" types who don't stop at advocating for a language on its technical merits: they have to belittle and berate users of other languages because their choice (or not: employment is what it is) isn't "correct." The Rust community has (a well deserved, in my opinion) reputation.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#232

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

rvz wrote: post #139

The so-called "Rust community" (As if that existed) and especially the Rust Foundation is going down blazingly fast, with all these pointless melodrama and tea time tantrums. This whole post really is a first world problem and the issue at had is as great as the great explosion of the ant hill in the back garden, which almost no-one cares about.

The thing is, Rust is being marketed as end-all, be-all of memory safety and overall programming, Microsoft, Linux kernel, and other giants are picking it up and it’s a badge of honor.

And then we have all that serious business clash with the leadership behaving as if they are power-intoxicated menchildren. Gosh.

I almost wish some IBM or Microsoft bought their guts and made it all corporate proper, as much as I hate all things corporate.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#233

Post by jasmer »

drxzcl wrote: post #218
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either it's a race issue or it's not. If it is, provide evidence of racism. Insinuating racism makes me believe your nothing more than a racist and miscreant yourself (you not being you you obviously)

This is a puerile take. If you ignore the optics of the situation you are going to step in it big time, even if your intentions are completely honorable. You need to be aware of the optics of your behavior, because that's all outside observers see. Your intentions are not something other people have access to. You going on the offensive like this on this particular point makes you look (see, optics again) either incr…

My gosh no, this toxic - it is not up to people to have contextualise or defend their behaviour given others' sensitivities.

It is fundamentally bigoted to assume racism, and fundamentally up to people to provide at least some evidence or context if they suspect there is.

The commentor is not going on the offensive, rather the defensive, as someone else brought the issue up.

"makes you look (see, optics again) either incredibly naïve or covering for some pretty bad behaviour."

You have arbitrarily (and repulsively) accused a commenter of 'covering for some crime' - typical of the social justice fanaticism that otherwise empathic people have come to loathe - you may want to contemplate why you might say such a thing.

This isn't an issue of race, it's not particularly part of the dialogue, it's an issue of perceived slight and professional victimhood. Not everything is hyper intersectional.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#234

Post by bybybyby »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

[flagged]

Re: Why I Left Rust

#235

Post by redeeman »

neonsunset wrote: post #29

I love Rust but the ideological posturing and swathes of people who in their hearts are grifters is truly disappointing. Framing a technical presentation you disagree with as "making you uncomfortable" in highly manipulative fashion definitely deserves to be called out in public.

this is well in line with the woke culture, everything is about feelings, and not rational arguments. They need trigger warnings, and if things hurt some feefee's, its simply unacceptable regardless of factual matters.

that is why it is so disruptive in a professional setting, and kills all real honest cooperation

Re: Why I Left Rust

#236

Post by losvedir »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

> And then they pushed them out of the conference behind leadership's back?

Effectively, but worth noting for clarity that they only explicitly wanted to demote the talk from keynote. But as this was disrespectful, the speaker withdrew entirely.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#237

Post by jasmer »

neonsunset wrote: post #29

I love Rust but the ideological posturing and swathes of people who in their hearts are grifters is truly disappointing. Framing a technical presentation you disagree with as "making you uncomfortable" in highly manipulative fashion definitely deserves to be called out in public.

I think the framing of 'uncomfortable' is just a poor choice of words among a bunch of people it would seem have difficulty with these things. My gosh this is all out of proportion.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#238

Post by bybybyby »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #150
chillbill wrote: post #79

I haven't seen anyone bring this up, so I will. I read through the original blog post from JeanHeyd[1] and in no way do they mention anything related to being a person of color, why then does JT associate it with that? I have no idea about the inner workings of the rust leadership team and who they are even, but from the timeline described and from the original post, there's nothing the could be related to that. Jean…

I'm generally not a fan of the way people go about D&I, but the fact JeanHeyd has brought up the problem before makes it more pertinent. Whoever on the Rust team made the decision to reach out and downgrade JeanHeyd's talk seems extremely incompetent. Optics matter a lot here and a large portion of leadership roles is optics. It's careless to not take context into account, like the recent history of poor Rust-related…

[flagged]

Re: Why I Left Rust

#239

Post by pas »

shakow wrote: post #54
pas wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ideology (culture!) is important. your second point seems trivial, after all let's assume that most of us live and act accordingly (manipulation is bad, and if there's something uncomfortable about a presentation, then it should be directly addressed, etc) but your first seems very interesting. can you please elaborate on who these grifters are, and how to identify them?

> how to identify them? They abuse their influence to demote a keynote selected by the agreed-upon keynote selection scheme, because it makes them “uncomfortable”.

but how do we know who was it?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#240

Post by psychphysic »

Ygg2 wrote: post #223
psychphysic wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Rust project needs to stamp this out before it begins to fester. https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/23/rust_moderation_team_... There seems be something rotten at Rust and I've no idea what but anyone who gets a close look at Rust leadership seems to sprint away. It doesn't seem to be a matter of stamping something out it'll be an entire overhaul.

From Rust team discussion at Reddit, it's not that anyone sprints away, the answer is that no one has the time to balance volunteering for Rust, working on code, reviewing, doing technical review, and then on top of that moderation and doing diplomatic stuff. Essentially no-one wants to do diplomatic stuff, so it falls to only person that likes doing that stuff (which isn't a good thing). Which can leads to episodes…

Perhaps, I've not followed closely but I know the subreddit is heavily moderated from overflow in to other media occasionally.

Here is another independent person blowing the whistle on rust culture.

https://hackmd.io/@XAMPPRocky/r1HT-Z6_t

How many times will this happen before people take it seriously?

I'm fully prepared for some horrendous revelations in the future.

And we'll all claim to have known nothing and seen no signs :)

Post reply on HN