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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#231

Post by marianatom »

radpanda wrote: post #198
viraptor wrote: post #113

Slightly off topic - I'm not sure I've heard the gov stating it plainly in the recent years: "the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" (from the bill). Did I just miss it / glance over, or is this out of character for officially released gov documents?

There are often a lot of weasel words used instead. In US Defense circles China has been described as a "pacing threat" over the past few years: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/26... I guess that's one way to describe the tense rivalry without completely calling your most important trade partner an "adversary".

After narrowly lagging behind China in 2022, Mexico officially became the US’s largest trading partner at the start of 2023, according to new US Census Bureau figures. https://www.gfmag.com/magazine/may-2023/mexico-overtakes-chi...

China should fall pretty quickly behind Europe as well this year. China's economy has fallen off the cliff - 80% decrease in foreign orders, 20% official youth unemployment rate, 50% reduction in home prices, 80% decrease in government land sales

China is no longer a partner to US, but a competitor and adversary. To Europe and Japan as well. China made that very clear when they announced unlimited friendship with Russia last year.

It's Russia + China + Iran vs Europe + US + Japan + Taiwan + South Korea + Australia + Canada

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#232

Post by nicenewtemp84 »

krapp wrote: post #82
nicenewtemp84 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think freedom of speech applies to foreign companies.

Freedom of speech is recognized as a universal human right throughout the world, and American political philosophy considers many rights mentioned in the Constitution as applying universally as well.

What are you talking about? Tons of European countries have zero concept of freedom of speech.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#233

Post by anigbrowl »

viraptor wrote: post #113

Slightly off topic - I'm not sure I've heard the gov stating it plainly in the recent years: "the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" (from the bill). Did I just miss it / glance over, or is this out of character for officially released gov documents?

A governor of s state =/= the federal government. the US Constitution vests the management of foreign affairs in the President. The Governor of Montana is just a public official expressing a private opinion, and has no official standing.

Consider the possibility that Greg Gianforte is angling for a cabinet job in a hoped-for future GOP administration, since his brash style is popular with many voters in that party, notwithstanding its sometimes criminal manifestation: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/12/532613316...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#234

Post by chmod600 »

radpanda wrote: post #198
viraptor wrote: post #113

Slightly off topic - I'm not sure I've heard the gov stating it plainly in the recent years: "the People's Republic of China is an adversary of the United States" (from the bill). Did I just miss it / glance over, or is this out of character for officially released gov documents?

There are often a lot of weasel words used instead. In US Defense circles China has been described as a "pacing threat" over the past few years: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/26... I guess that's one way to describe the tense rivalry without completely calling your most important trade partner an "adversary".

How is China the most important? Measured in dollars, a brief search seems to show that we trade more with Canada?

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/t...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#235

Post by orangecat »

px43 wrote: post #207
bioemerl wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They threaten regularly to go to war with us over Taiwan. People before WW1 thought war was impossible thanks to how the economy was so interconnected. Russia invaded Ukraine despite how tied they were to Europe economically. To suggest China can't be an adversary just because we trade is a blunder made many times in history, and it fails, time and time again. Don't fall for it.

No one is saying that China can't be an adversary. People are saying that maybe US politicians shouldn't be blatantly labeling them as an adversary just to score some sinophobic rageporn points with Fox News viewers.

sinophobic rageporn

Yes, if the genocidal tyrants in Beijing were white we'd have no problem with them.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#236

Post by nkjnlknlk »

asynchronous wrote: post #169
giraffe_lady wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's predictable that it's coming from a conservative state. That they are broadly against using state power to ban things is part of their identity and marketing but not reality. Especially when it can be construed as a social-moral problem.

Yeah nothing like banning people from going to restaurants without a state issued vaccine pass (we didn’t forget)

Which part is not real? The vaccinations? Their effect on spread? Their effect on symptoms?

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#237

Post by anigbrowl »

tcfunk wrote: post #131
organsnyder wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of Montana doesn't speak for the federal government.

Federal gov employees also can't use tiktok on any device that is in the general vicinity of gov property.

Sure, but the federal government isn't trying to forbid the American public from deciding what private decisions to make.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#238

Post by bioemerl »

woooooo wrote: post #229
bioemerl wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is saying that China can't be an adversary. I think anyone who says they aren't is lying to themselves. This is a far bigger trend than just some fox News viewers. Opposition to China has become bilateral and is very well supported by most in America. You can only spend so long pretending to be a friend while also opposing the United States in basically every possible way until the United States wakes up and…

They're mostly the same country they were 10 years ago. Compare the media coverage then and now -- they didn't change, we just ran out of war on terror and needed a new enemy.

> They're mostly the same country they were 10 years ago.

Oh, I strongly agree with you there. This was obvious in 2013 as well.

Xi and his arrogant actions on the world stage have been a big help in creating opposition though.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#239

Post by knd775 »

marianatom wrote: post #231
radpanda wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are often a lot of weasel words used instead. In US Defense circles China has been described as a "pacing threat" over the past few years: https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/26... I guess that's one way to describe the tense rivalry without completely calling your most important trade partner an "adversary".

After narrowly lagging behind China in 2022, Mexico officially became the US’s largest trading partner at the start of 2023, according to new US Census Bureau figures. https://www.gfmag.com/magazine/may-2023/mexico-overtakes-chi... China should fall pretty quickly behind Europe as well this year. China's economy has fallen off the cliff - 80% decrease in foreign orders, 20% official youth unemployment rate, 50% reduc…

> China made that very clear when they announced unlimited friendship with Russia last year.

To be clear, this was before the war and China has since walked it back a bit.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#240

Post by algoatecorn »

woooooo wrote: post #229
bioemerl wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is saying that China can't be an adversary. I think anyone who says they aren't is lying to themselves. This is a far bigger trend than just some fox News viewers. Opposition to China has become bilateral and is very well supported by most in America. You can only spend so long pretending to be a friend while also opposing the United States in basically every possible way until the United States wakes up and…

They're mostly the same country they were 10 years ago. Compare the media coverage then and now -- they didn't change, we just ran out of war on terror and needed a new enemy.

Then don't compare the media coverage. Instead look at the actions of both countries. Read proposed legislation from US lawmakers going back almost two decades addressing the game theory between both nations. Read about the rampant IP theft that China has committed over the years, particularly in US-tax funded institutions. The US is simply planning ahead and severing ties which have kept us in a compromised position.

Sure, maybe some people are warhawking but most of the concerned people are focused on trade dependence and worried that China will take over Tiawan's production as a last resort. Is that an unreasonable view? What happens if they do decide to do that? Just let them do it?

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