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Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

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Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes (did not doubt that), but this is of course only one part of the puzzle. Remember that the assumption of the post you responded too suggested incentives tied to real estate (stock in real estate sector might already be enough), and not about salary/stock in OpenAI. What about other engagements, promises made and so on? Has he declared that incentive-wise there is nothing else than OpenAI going on for him?

Maybe cool it on the conspiracy theories.

Having stock related to real estate is more common than you think, might even try it yourself ;)

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#232
post #21

I assume he’s got either direct or indirect links to commercial realestate; as an owner or investor or something else. It makes literally 0 business sense to be forking out anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand per employee per month to give them a space to work, when that can just be avoided. The amount of cost and overheads involved; from insurance to upkeep to rent to OHS - a work space is probably the nex…

Why do you assume this? Sam literally takes no salary or compensation of any kind from OpenAI because he thinks he has enough money. Your bias is clouding your judgement.

His level of compensation means nothing for his mistaken feelings that in-office is coming back and remote is dead, and it doesn't mean that part of his psyche likes to see butts in chairs to make himself feel like a boss. He's still human.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#233

The era of remote work is not over. It’s just arrived. We overshot the equilibrium point by a lot during the pandemic height and that will regress back to something closer to long term trend. No matter how much the HN crowd vociferously defends remote work, it’s simply an inferior mode of operation for many creative jobs. People are not machines. We’re evolved to congregate and share space, to read body language, sha…

>We’re evolved to congregate and share space, to read body language, share meals, interact with zero latency. On the other hand we didn't evolve to spend eight hours a day staring at a screen. Nor to spend two hours a day sat in a car commuting.

Supposedly a part of correcting an overshoot is possibly finding a hybrid.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#235
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or… Just have optional office hours, Slack huddles and mob sessions every few days. Some of my engineers… - have a open huddle for a few hours a day where anyone can drop into their project while they work - others make use of our scheduled themed mob sessions (ie. Maintenance Mondays, deployment Thursdays). have a problem, idea or just want to hangout then come by? - ICs & seniors are required to host at least a wee…

> - ICs & seniors are required to host at least a weekly office hour to assist juniors or teach something of their choice. When I was a junior engineer working in-person, I was learning from senior engineers multiple times a day, not just once a week.

and now you may learn from them multiple times a day, not in person, but over the internet

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article is that for team work with unclearity you are more creative by working in a physical space together. If your work can be done in isolation and doesn't require a team to deal with any uncertainty, then by all means work fully remote. However, if your work is about innovation and collaboration, then it's going to be more effective to spend time together. I think it's telling that you talk about…

> However, if your work is about innovation and collaboration, then it's going to be more effective to spend time together. Not convinced yet, at this point it just seems to be anecdotes, and pretty nebolous ones at that. I would be open to listen to this position if it was backed up by actual examples like "So we were working on Product X and team Y struggled with remote work in that and that way." Creativity/Innova…

I work in a small startup doing innovative software/hardware products. Some of the most 'creative' work we have ever done as a team was when the power went out and we finally spent time workshopping what a particular thing should be like with a whiteboard and pieces of paper. That was a defining moment and what we came up with on that day is kind of what we have today.

Some of the best and most valuable insights in our process are captured in recorded IRL onsite sessions with our users. Humans put on a bit of a show when they're remotely connected and that just ruins the process because they just sort of withdraw after they say their bit. I have recordings that prove this - users spontaneously changing their minds or sharing more about how they really feel about something.

I would argue that the best creativity on a team occurs when there are actual meat-skeletons together in a room smelling each others' farts, interrupting each other, eating together, getting excited, getting pissed, whatever etc.

But you are absolutely correct that this is anecdotal and nebulous at best. In the article he mentions how this is better when the product is unclear and unformed yet.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#237

I don’t get that stance of creative work needing to happen in person. Seems like a CEO having a bias for a specific type of work style. Open source development has been running on remote work forever and it’s doing great. The recent article about OpenAI and Google having their lunch eaten by a bunch of remote hobbyist show how this thinking is flawed.

There is a difference between software development and running a business. As in, "hustle to figure out this complicated operational problem or die running out of money in a month", vs "a grab bag of nice-to-have tickets for the next year or so". Besides the fact that many open-source projects like Linux also had a ton of corporate contribution from in-office workers.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#238
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we always need non anecdotal data to support every assertion that we make? I've had many face to face conversations in a room with a whiteboard that couldn't have happened nearly as efficiently if everyone was remote. Now I do think that the push against work from home in general has very little to do with operating efficiency (if companies cared that much about operating efficiency they wouldn't have developers w…

> Do we always need non anecdotal data to support every assertion that we make? When the claim is that remote work is a mistake and that its era came to an end... Yes. It's an exceptional claim, and exceptional claims demand exceptional data. Otherwise we should call it bullshit. > but the argument that there's no utility in face to face meetings is just as meritless. Probably. I do prefer remote work, and I favor wo…

Well de-facto the balanced approach is here already. If you don't like OpenAI, you can go work for Gitlab. The actual interview is not as extreme as the title, and since Altman mentioned they have remote workers too, he seems to be trying to say that 100% remote for everyone is over.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#239

The era of remote work is not over. It’s just arrived. We overshot the equilibrium point by a lot during the pandemic height and that will regress back to something closer to long term trend. No matter how much the HN crowd vociferously defends remote work, it’s simply an inferior mode of operation for many creative jobs. People are not machines. We’re evolved to congregate and share space, to read body language, sha…

> Time zone is not a moat, I promise you.

It may not be a moat, but it does serve as constant friction that adds latency. Sometimes you can plan your way so latency doesn't slow things down too much - but anything that requires operational coordination is going to be very difficult.

Re: Sam Altman says era of remote work is over

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do we always need non anecdotal data to support every assertion that we make? When the claim is that remote work is a mistake and that its era came to an end... Yes. It's an exceptional claim, and exceptional claims demand exceptional data. Otherwise we should call it bullshit. > but the argument that there's no utility in face to face meetings is just as meritless. Probably. I do prefer remote work, and I favor wo…

Well de-facto the balanced approach is here already. If you don't like OpenAI, you can go work for Gitlab. The actual interview is not as extreme as the title, and since Altman mentioned they have remote workers too, he seems to be trying to say that 100% remote for everyone is over.

> he seems to be trying to say that 100% remote for everyone is over.

That is not a balanced take. In fact, it's pretty extreme.

Plenty of companies are 0% remote, plenty of companies are 100%, and plenty others are somewhere in between.

His take that 100% remote is over is bizarre and somewhat confrontational, without any data to back it up. It's plain bullshit.

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