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Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

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Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can only assess the popularity of something when it becomes a free choice rather than obligation. Democratic elections and referendums have assessed this and the majority of the population has voted in favor of this system. For better or worse, that's democracy for ya'.

Not sure it's so simple. Most of the voting population is past the age where this affects them and people (I must admit I fall in that trap quite often) have the mentality that "it was done to me and look how well I turned out, so I'll do it to them". The only way to see if people want it is to give them the choice when the time comes . > the population has voted But as you said earlier, it's the same population and…

I can only say from the Swiss perspective, critical system and service are not degraded and the system would work perfectly fine without a few 10000 civil service works. And I don't think this is true for Austria either.

> Yes, democracy is about getting the people's vote of confidence. How you earn that confidence is outside the democratic process and could be as simple as "feed them BS".

In Switzerland getting people vote is about much more then confidence as we vote regularly on actual issues, not just on people or parties. And because its Concordance system all parties share a certain amount of confidence form the population.

The political discussion about mandatory military services are certainly happening and have been for a very long time. Generally, in a conservative society you need to have a really convincing reason to change something, and in Switzerland at least nobody has come up with a great alternative that convinces many people so the system stays as it it.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlimited data here is rare (or too expensive), usually normal people have 5-10gb a month. Still it covers most web and messaged stuff, just don’t watch too much video….

To be a little more precise about the pricing: O2 Unlimited: - 32,99€/month for 4G/5G capped at 3mbit with unlimited data - 42,99€/month for 4G/5G capped at 15mbit with unlimited data - 62,99€/month for 4G/5G up to 500mbit with with unlimited data Vodafone: - 79,99€/month with 4G/5G up to 500mbit with unlimted data Telekom: - 84,99€/month with 4G/5G up to 500mbit with unlimited data 1und1: - 49,99€/month with 4G/5G c…

Freenet Funk is offering unlimited data with 4G for 0.99€/day. Speeds are up to 250mbit.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company that runs the DB system (HAFAS) provides this system for half of the European railways though. And, interestingly enough, also for BART. https://www.hacon.de/unternehmen/

Their codebase has to be a wild ride. There are still traces from the days it ran as Windows binaries in CGI fashion (very much doubt they still do it like that, just like a large number of eBay URLs still contain the ebayISAPI.dll bit from the time the site was literally a Microsoft IIS plugin). On the DB instance it also outputs like five different generations of UIs depending on the exact parameters you hand it. Y…

It remembers X.25 networks.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#234
post #199
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No senior discounts? How are older people viewed in Germany?

At that price point, does it even matter?

I've been confused in the last couple of threads related to this topic how responses like yours exist. Trying to be constructive, I'm going to float a theory: you live in Silicon Valley and that doesn't seem like much money?

For a German pensioner, in many cases, this would represent more than 5% of post-rent living costs. For my girlfriend, a manager of a team of 16 people (in non-tech in Germany) it's more than 5% of her post-taxes, post-rent income.

€49/month is not trivial for a lot of working or retired Germans. GDP per capita in Germany is €46k/year, and after taxes and insurance (and rent! and that more than half of Germans that make less than that), €49/month is not a pittance.

These tickets are generally aimed at working class Germans, which often make 10-20% of a normal Silicon Valley salary.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which reminds me to give a shout-out to the Clipper card. The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. 24 different systems, all of which use the same card: https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/where-to-use.html And they have now expanded that card-based system to include a mobile app, Google Pay, and Apple Pay, so now I just tap my phone and I'm all set.

The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. No, no they really didn't. They spent millions rebranding it, there is (was?) a huge lag between adding value and posting the value depending on how you added value. The original card readers were incredibly unreliable, and because Clipper/TransLink did absolutely nothing to unify* the fare structure across the twenty-four different systems you could be set up for a na…

It's not a perfect thing, sure. But it's a big step forward. It's hugely better than having to deal with each system separately; I've had days when I've used 4 systems, for example.

As you note with the pricing complexity, there is just a wide divergence of views and interests on how to run a transit system. And I get it; I think there are legitimate reasons people picked those different pricing systems. But they figured out how to overcome that so I can have one card for all of that. And even better, one card that is now my phone.

If people are interested in the history that drives some of what it ended up the way it did, this is a good start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_card

For younger developers who are used to everything being connected, it's really worth thinking about how you'd build a reasonably robust, hard-to-exploit system when many of the important terminals, as on busses, were usually out of contact.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#236
post #120
post #111

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And for visitors who may not even speak the primary language, public transit is awful in most places in terms of onboarding jet lagged visitors. Apparently no one does UX trials of people who have zero familiarity with the system and don't speak the language--though at least they maybe accommodate major Western languages. But, in general, it's pretty awful and you at least should do some research in advance.

I agree that vending machines are really a mess. However I recommend the Deutsche Bahn Navigator App. If you have an account you can easily get most tickets. Also states like Baden-Württemberg got their act together recently and made it possible to book tickets all way through. I recently was in Netherlands trying to get from the Hague to the islands south of Rotterdam and it was also quite confusing. but the new tic…

> I recently was in Netherlands trying to get from the Hague to the islands south of Rotterdam and it was also quite confusing.

You can just swipe your phone (Apple Pay / Google Wallet) or credit/debit card to check in and out (do not forget to check out!) and you're done. Works for all public transport in the Netherlands.

Of course there are also more traditional ways to pay for your ticket, but it does not get much simpler than this imo.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#237
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which reminds me to give a shout-out to the Clipper card. The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. 24 different systems, all of which use the same card: https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/where-to-use.html And they have now expanded that card-based system to include a mobile app, Google Pay, and Apple Pay, so now I just tap my phone and I'm all set.

Yeah, not as much in the Bay Area these days, but the Clipper card is a huge improvement over the previous system. And I imagie by the time I eventually run down my Clipper balance I'll be fine with my phone.

It's been a while since I set it up, but I'm pretty sure that setting up Clipper on Google Pay (or Google Wallet or whatever it is) is using my old Clipper balance. So you might be able to swap it over now and have it ready to go for your next trip.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#238
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the US is investing less in transit than other countries, the projects themselves are silly expensive compared to other countries. For how little transit is used in the US, it's amazing how much (relative) funding there is. To get the US towards building much more transit (and other infrastructure) there are many hurdles, but one of the main ones is building useful things for non-obscene amounts of money.

yeah, that goes back to us paying people more than other countries. People in the US make a killing managing projects, working in the office, etc... not to mention the huge amounts the C-Suite as salary and bonuses for their leadership on these projects.

At least according to some, this isn't the (only) cause: https://pedestrianobservations.files.wordpress.com/2023/04/t... People get paid similar to other countries, but the whole structure is much less productive. There are also many other issues.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#239

The biggest advantage of the new Germany-wide ticket is not the price, but rather that it simplifies things. This is a map of German public transit companies: [0]. I've heard the current fractured system be compared to the Holy Roman Empire. Every little region has its own ticketing system. If you arrive in a new city, you have to figure out how to buy local transit tickets, often with quite complicated rules (e.g.,…

Your comment is a fascinating take on perspective. To you it's a fractured, difficult system. To this American, it has been absolutely futuristic every time I've been there. Wish we could get such an awful system anywhere near where I live.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every transit system should have a “tourist day pass” that is moderately expensive but allows you to use anything for 24 hours or so.

In Rome, you can now just tap contactless payment cards (/ smartphones, I assume) to readers in buses/ at underground stations. Huge step up from the previous system, which was based on buying paper tickets from newsagents.

But now Italian newsagents don’t get to laugh at us pronouncing the ‘g’ in biglietti. Makes me feel a bit nostalgic/sad for some reason.
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