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Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

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Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of my parents learned to read at home, in poverty. Both had educated parents, who had been displaced by the events of the era. I learned to read at home. Both of my kids, likewise. It didn't even remotely occur to anybody in the family that learning to read was special, or that there might even be any way to teach it other than phonics. English has a phonetic alphabet after all, right? Moreover, learning to read…

I'm Greek. When teaching a kid to read English using phonics, how do you explain that "tough" and "rough" are written the same, but sound different than "though" and "borough", and that "doe" and "low" rhyme with each other and both the latter, but neither of the former? And how do you explain "Loughborough"? Why not "Lowborrow", as in "low" and "borrow"? Don't kids ask those things when you teach them to read with p…

You can imagine each language as a painters’ pallete.

Each letter combination is a colour. You only have access to some colours, but not all.

Some colours (letter combinations) look good together, and others don’t. When they don’t, you try to see the “colour” as another one until it makes sense (looking for context). Kind of like “what colour is dress”.

To speak to your British English example, you also know that some places (i.e. regional dialects) don’t use a standard colour and only use one they “whipped up” at home.

If you have access to multiple palletes (i.e you are multilingual), you realize some colours might be similar but not always the same. If there are similar colours, they each have a different “shade”. Paint consistency might also vary.

This is also how you can learn to talk in accents. Instead of using native sounds to pronounce a word in one language, you “dip” into a “sound palette” of another language to try to get as close as you can to the original word.

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#232
I heard of this story years ago, and was very dismayed. (There is no date on this website is this something new?)

however the last 2 years I've experienced kids being taught to read in US public school kindergarten and the curriculum was nothing like was described in this series. They were taught phonics and memorized common non-phonetic words the same way I was taught 30 years ago.

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of my parents learned to read at home, in poverty. Both had educated parents, who had been displaced by the events of the era. I learned to read at home. Both of my kids, likewise. It didn't even remotely occur to anybody in the family that learning to read was special, or that there might even be any way to teach it other than phonics. English has a phonetic alphabet after all, right? Moreover, learning to read…

We were told it was better to let the teachers teach otherwise kids learn bad habits or don’t engage. That being said our eldest went to school at 4 1/2 in Australia and they had to learn 100 words in their first year (phonics), and we were a little worried that it seemed so intense, though she ended up learning 200 or so and went on to become a voracious reader. But then we moved to the US and our youngest started s…

>> We were told it was better to let the teachers teach otherwise kids learn bad habits or don’t engage.

That sounds like very dubious advice to me, even if given with best intentions.

Surely if parents read books to their kids, with their kids, then it is a natural step for the kids to start learning the words and word sounds by reading too?

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of my parents learned to read at home, in poverty. Both had educated parents, who had been displaced by the events of the era. I learned to read at home. Both of my kids, likewise. It didn't even remotely occur to anybody in the family that learning to read was special, or that there might even be any way to teach it other than phonics. English has a phonetic alphabet after all, right? Moreover, learning to read…

Just a small point, and I might be mistaken on terminology, but isn't English one of the least phonetic alphabets? afaik most other languages have much more consistent pronunciation, and one of the biggest complaints of English language learners (and precocious kids) is not being able to know how a word is pronounced based on its spelling.

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Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of my parents learned to read at home, in poverty. Both had educated parents, who had been displaced by the events of the era. I learned to read at home. Both of my kids, likewise. It didn't even remotely occur to anybody in the family that learning to read was special, or that there might even be any way to teach it other than phonics. English has a phonetic alphabet after all, right? Moreover, learning to read…

Just a small point, and I might be mistaken on terminology, but isn't English one of the least phonetic alphabets? afaik most other languages have much more consistent pronunciation, and one of the biggest complaints of English language learners (and precocious kids) is not being able to know how a word is pronounced based on its spelling.

The writing system of English is far more phonetic than logographic writing systems such as that of Chinese. That's the relevant difference here. It is true that English's writing system is one of the least phonetic alphabets, but alphabets are always, by definition, quite phonetic. Most writing systems are alphabetic and not logographic, so if you rank them all ordinally, English is going to have a similar rank to Chinese, but the absolute difference between English and Chinese is quite large. Here is a very impressionistic assignment of percentages of phoneticity to various systems, which will hopefully make clear what I'm getting at:

Phoneticity 20% (Chinese)

--

--

--

Phoneticity 75% (English)

Phoneticity 80% (French)

Phoneticity 90% (Spanish, probably most other writing systems)

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#236
post #181

Again from the podcast: Hanford: So much of this research isn’t new. And this idea that readers use context, multiple sources of information to solve words, identify words as they’re reading, that was really taken on by researchers back in the 70s and 80s, as an interesting question. Like, is that what we do? And they showed quite definitively that that wasn’t the case. I mean, were you sort of aware of that research…

> These people belong in gaol. Luckily in the US, being very wrong about something, even when it's very consequential, is not illegal. We'd have a much less entrepreneurial society, and a lot less open, free debate, if it were. Lucy Calkins did not force people to follow her methods, she persuaded them through teaching and advocacy. FWIW I think a lot of affected students would have a reasonable civil case against Te…

This isn't a free speech issue. This is a matter of fraud. Claiming you have methods of teaching literacy when you don't is fraud. Lying or pressuring congressman to get government grants is equally fraud.

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#237
post #164
post #80

I just listened to this podcast a few weeks ago. What really struck me was just how obviously wrong the Guided Reading curriculum and three cueing theory was even just on its face, and how many people went along with replacing phonics with Guided Reading despite that. For example, the podcast recounts a Guided Reading lesson where the teacher covers up the words the kids are supposed to be reading with a piece of tap…

It worked well enough for BERT: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BERT_(language_model)

BERT wasn’t learning how to read. It was learning how to predict (or generate or understand or whatever) text.

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#238
post #58

All the teachers I know are pretty irritated by Sold a Story, mostly their criticisms are: - if you just teach phonics you aren't actually helping kids to read (they've tried) because reading is more than just sounds - Sold a Story omits basically any nuance for shock facts I also think it's important to point out that APM Reports isn't an independent journalistic outfit. They accept grants for specific research. In…

For a long time I've held the unpopular opinion that most elementary teachers are utterly incompetent, and that as an academic field, Education is becoming more and more bullshit. I will be down-voted to hell because of this, and yet, the reality always seems to agree with my world-view.

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#239
A couple of thoughts form my own anecdotal evidence:

* My mother was a stay-at-home mom and some of the earliest memories I have is her teaching me to read.

* I had difficulty in school and I did not fit in. My social issues spilled into the classroom, my grades suffered, i was picked on a lot, and I was usually put in remedial classes (you know those smaller classes with like 5 students). Yet I got a 1460 on my SATs, +700 on SATIIs, and went to USNews top 25 college (~20% acceptance rate at the time, ~12% now).

I have gotten more social since, but it left me with the impression that public school can do more harm than good. I am pro school choice and will seriously consider homeschooling.

Re: Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong

#240

This is just my personal experience. My first son was able to read when he was 2.5 yo. I read Dr. Suess to him every night since he was 1 yo. At first I would read and let him finish the last word in the sentence, the rhyming part. One day I asked him to try reading the whole sentence and he did. I thought maybe I read to him so much that he memorized it, as I was starting to memorized some of the books. I switch to…

> Another thing I think help was that we put him to sleep with a radio station playing classical music since he was born, maybe even before that. Trevor Noah talking about how he learnt German. https://youtu.be/2PWSJH02krs?t=56 So I started learning. I learned in different ways, you know - to watch German movies, play German speeches on my iPod when I sleep. Your brain remembers things you don't even know. It's beaut…

Learning by listening to something during your sleep doesn't work. Brains go into a sort of maintenance mode during sleep, and it's not possible for your brain to sleep and interpret & comprehend sensory input at the same time.

Most likely the noise will have a negative effect on the length and quality of your sleep, which does have a proven negative effect on memory.

So it's probably better for you to learn while your awake and just sleep at night.

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