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Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

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Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#231

Post by coldtea »

JohnFen wrote: post #230
coldtea wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom Nope, just reality described as is. > Of course people with privilege have it easier. (...) Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck. That, on the other hand, is fatalism described as realism. Nothing ever changed without outrage about how things are. And even less by people accepting them and trying to get by "despite that".

"Every pessimist thinks themself a realist."

Realists also think of themselves as realists, so there's that.

Plus, every starry-eyed, la-la land, Polyanna thinks themselves not naive!

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#232

Post by kingboss »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #132
grardb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Rutgers alumnus who was involved in the scene when college hackathons started really taking off (2009-2013, attended 40+ hackathons), I can say that this anecdote doesn't reflect my experience at all. Had you attended HackRU instead of HackPrinceton, I can guarantee you that the app ideas would be pretty much indistinguishable from those at other universities. As for thinking differently, I can't speak much to t…

To clarify, I'm not talking about IQ. There's no connection between IQ and (financial) success. It's how and what they use what they have. There's a difference been thinking about and having lunch with Aunt X and Uncke Y the successful biz owners and the new Marvel movie and associated video game. There's a difference between being smart about your body (read: food and exercise) and indulgening in anything advertised…

Rich people usually control their weight better because they have more money to have better food and perhaps personal cooks/access to better restaurants with better food. They act differently because they are rich. Not because of any sort of bullshit mEnTaLiTy concept.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#233

Post by Hermitian909 »

coldtea wrote: post #223
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom. Of course people with privilege have it easier. The whole world runs on the Matthew Effect because it's too lazy to do anything else. It isn't just or fair. Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck. Me? As someone who rarely is fully confident about things, I'm fully confident I'll achieve some moderate success in bootstrapping if onl…

> This is cynicism disguising itself as wisdom Nope, just reality described as is. > Of course people with privilege have it easier. (...) Until you can fully accept that truth and do things despite that, you're stuck. That, on the other hand, is fatalism described as realism. Nothing ever changed without outrage about how things are. And even less by people accepting them and trying to get by "despite that".

There's an interesting tension in between aggregate problems and what's possible for you as an individual.

As an example, in the aggregate people with non-CS or math backgrounds are very unlikely to make $400k+ a year as a software developer. On an individual level, I have repeatedly been able to get others to that level inside 5 years if those people are willing to do straightforward but difficult work. However, this is only possible because so many people won't do the work, if everyone was aware of the opportunity and had the gumption to pursue it diligently the opportunity would quickly be exhausted.

This same pattern of "plenty of opportunity for individuals, but not enough for the group" seems common in many other ventures. Talking to very successful people it seems to be one of the reasons so many people who make it view lack of success as a failing, they've acquired the skillset to see these opportunities and wonder why no one is taking them (but often fail to notice there aren't enough for everyone).

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#234

Post by blueprint »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #102
blueprint wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what universe do you live in where someone making gte 100k working the carnival is poor?

The median income in the USA is 41k.

what's your fallacy called? i don't remember. but obviously the comment was about the circus enabling the rich kids' startups. if the circus was the rest of the us then it would be everyone's circus, not the aforementioned one. duh. now the real question is are you arguing in good faith or are you actually on, eg, the side of those rich kids? either way, fallacy is fallacy and you should be downvoted.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#235

Post by boplicity »

mrangle wrote: post #210
coldtea wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. I started bootstrapping microbusinesses with almost no monetary investment. This eventually allowed me to support myself (on a very low budget), and then, later, on a slightly larger budget. Eventually, one of these businesses became successful enough to support a family comforta…

The larger red flag is the language typical of marketers combined with zero specificity. "Bootstrap microbusinesses, no monetary investment" followed by "success". All very unlikely, especially in plural. If true, he wouldn't have to reveal an exact business model. But detailing the type of business (ie: service or product) and / or sector would have lent credibility. I can't think of a truly successful business, for…

Note, I said "almost no monetary investment."

I did things like buy a domain name, pay for cheap web hosting, etc. I was already knew the basics of coding, and some understanding of marketing. My biggest investment was a $97 eBook about marketing. I found one idea in that book that I used to do some successful SEO. This was circa 2003, when SEO was pretty much as easy as picking fruit from a tree, if you knew the right things. Anyways, that's how I got things launched. I also bought and read quite a few business books, which certainly weren't free.

This type of investment was very do-able for most middle class kids. Many of whom, at the time, could afford their own home built computers.

Also -- what I started with is very much not where I ended up, though there is certainly some relationship to it. For example, SEO is still an important part of the business, but the SEO strategy is much more about human relationships and service, than it was about "gaming the system," which was my perspective as a 21 year old.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#236

Post by chiefalchemist »

kingboss wrote: post #232
chiefalchemist wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, I'm not talking about IQ. There's no connection between IQ and (financial) success. It's how and what they use what they have. There's a difference been thinking about and having lunch with Aunt X and Uncke Y the successful biz owners and the new Marvel movie and associated video game. There's a difference between being smart about your body (read: food and exercise) and indulgening in anything advertised…

Rich people usually control their weight better because they have more money to have better food and perhaps personal cooks/access to better restaurants with better food. They act differently because they are rich. Not because of any sort of bullshit mEnTaLiTy concept.

It's chicken egg thing.

Or at they rich because they act differently?

Come on, if you had the money it's 10x easier to "let yourself go", right? Yet how often does that happen?

Your thoughts drive your decisions and actions. That's not bullshit. That's life. Suck it up cupcake :)

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#237

Post by thrashh »

czbond wrote: post #208
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can always afford to continue - just with your after hours work job nights and weekends. I don't like pointing out 'privilege', but this is it. Many of us have to spend weekends and evenings looking after kids, or ill parents. Family responsibilities in other words. Some of us have jobs that demand more than standard 9/5. And some have to work a second job to make ends meet.

What you pointed out is adults have responsibilities. We all have responsibilities to work around to follow your goals and dreams. Not having responsibilities is not a sign of privilege - but just a sign of a different phase of life. So that means one has to be tactical to pick the opportunity that matches what effort & energy one can put towards that opportunity.

You can’t work around all responsibilities. For example, if you have to take care of your sick mom, you simply cannot do it.

I’m going to be honest. You don’t sound super privileged but you are more privileged than a lot of people and you don’t seem to realize it.

There is nothing wrong with privilege and there are definitely lazy people but it gets ridiculous when you keep posting “if I could do it, why can’t everyone else?”

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#238

Post by treis »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #204
treis wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. A large majority of middle class kid can rely on their parents support until their 30s. I personally know several shitheads doing that and they're doing so because they're lazy. Not because they're working hard on some start up.

Sure, but that safety net runs out. And once it runs out with nothing established beyond it, the "shithead" is SOL.

Sure, but it runs out after a dozen start up attempts. And at that point you haven't got a business you can live on it's because you're not cut out to be a founder.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#239

Post by JohnFen »

coldtea wrote: post #231
JohnFen wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every pessimist thinks themself a realist."

Realists also think of themselves as realists, so there's that. Plus, every starry-eyed, la-la land, Polyanna thinks themselves not naive!

Agreed. Very nearly 100% of people think their point of view is correct and reasonable and everyone who doesn't share their point of view is wrong. The point of the quote, to me, is to remind us of that.

It goes along with another of my favorite quotes: everyone seems crazy when you don't understand their point of view.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#240

Post by s1artibartfast »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #225
s1artibartfast wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a mixed bag. Without progressive taxation regimes and property tax, I would expect those people to have much more wealth, not less.

The very top, sure. But there are effects all down the ladder, and at some point the effects of the laws stop helping build wealth and start hurting it. Some of these taxation regimes are functionally regressive, at least at the top. https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2023/03/26/financia... > The reason most people don’t get the mortgage interest benefit is because claiming it requires itemizing tax deductions…

>But there are effects all down the ladder, and at some point the effects of the laws stop helping build wealth and start hurting it.

This was actually the point I was trying to make. It depends on how you look at it, but by one measure, taxes on net are slowing the wealth accumulation of everyone who pays more than the national average tax. Those who pay less than the average are typically living hand to mouth and not accumulating wealth. When you look at where tax revenue comes from, it is mostly the high earners that are paying for everything, offsetting the their wealth accumulation. Even despite factors like itemized tax deductions, your high earner will still be paying far more than your low earner. For example, the federal rate of 37% on income over 500k will still be far more than 12% on less than 41k, even with tax deductions.

There are of course some factors that offset this, like maintaining the rule of law, education, and property rights which help lift all boats, rich and poor.

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