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Not by AI

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Re: Not by AI

#231

Post by dinkumthinkum »

sho_hn wrote: post #29
underyx wrote: post #17

> If humans rely solely on AI to generate content moving forward, any new content generated by AI may just be recycled content from the past. To be honest, I’d struggle to find any human content that is not recycled from the past. I guess we are still better than AI at remixing sufficiently novel combinations of concepts but I think much of this AI content aversion comes from some kind of phobia, or an unwillingness…

You're probably onto something, but then it's also nothing new that we attribute value to handmade goods over industrial goods. Because they're backed by storytelling (real or imagined), rare/exclusive, etc. It's clear that amidst a deluge of AI-generated content, audience urges for authenticity will rise. Attention is in more finite supply than content, has been even before generative AI; only so much will stick out…

I think you also discount that handmade items are generally valued for being higher quality and sturdier than mass produced items in many cases. It’s not just this kind of emotional thing.

Re: Not by AI

#232

Post by incrudible »

theK wrote: post #177
gspencley wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philosophical food for thought: if all content is recycled / mixed from the past, when did innovation and creativity stop? In other words, if there is truly no such thing as an "original idea", then how did the ideas that we are pulling from, deriving from and combining come into existence? If all we are saying is that existing ideas inspire new ones, or that most human generated content is derivative, then I complet…

Creativity and innovation didn't ever stop. Its only words and concepts and we keep inventing new ones constantly. We also imbue new meaning to words and concepts over time.

Maybe they didn't stop, but they're converging towards zero. In the past hundred years, artists were coming up with a lot of things that had not existed for all of humanity. Nowadays, it's rare to find truly original style. The space has been explored thoroughly. It's also not just random search. It's no coincidence that most image generation prompts have an existing artist or style in them. If you leave it off, you just get crap.

Re: Not by AI

#233

Post by rchaud »

can16358p wrote: post #6
echelon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art will continue to evolve with AI. Another argument I keep hearing (most recently from pg), is that we'll always need non-AI training data. That, too, doesn't follow. Training new models on synthetic data does not mean we get stuck in a particular mode or style. We'll continue moving, improving, and trying wildly new things. Bootstrapping with synthetic data doesn't block evolution - it enables faster evolution, ev…

I think the same. Many artists hate because they feel threatened. I think the opposite: creating art (e.g. Drawing) was only for the ones who had drawing skills. Now, it's being democratized and everyone, regardless of being talented in drawing or not, can freely express their feelings and creativity. I think it's a great thing.

> I think the opposite: creating art (e.g. Drawing) was only for the ones who had drawing skills. Now, it's being democratized and everyone

Drawing was for anybody who put in the work.

You may as well say football wasn't democratized until the release of FIFA International Soccer in '94.

Re: Not by AI

#234

Post by chii »

zirgs wrote: post #179
randcraw wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if creators are paid nothing for their work. I think inescapably, the profession of writing is about to take a big hit from GPT-X, with the few remaining journalists paid considerably less than before. There will be an exodus of talent, leaving... Microsoft and Google to write our news for us?

If you just copy and paste from Reuters then you're not a real journalist. ChatGPT can't travel to a war zone to find out what's going on there. So real journalists aren't going anywhere.

> So real journalists aren't going anywhere.

and there aren't very many of these kinds of journalists (let's call them "correspondents" to differentiate).

The journalists copy/pasting from Reuters, or the ones that paraphrase a press release, is going to go the way of automation, but i suspect that this amount of jobs is still quite large today, but will disappear relatively soon.

Re: Not by AI

#235

Post by teucris »

raincole wrote: post #104
gspencley wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philosophical food for thought: if all content is recycled / mixed from the past, when did innovation and creativity stop? In other words, if there is truly no such thing as an "original idea", then how did the ideas that we are pulling from, deriving from and combining come into existence? If all we are saying is that existing ideas inspire new ones, or that most human generated content is derivative, then I complet…

The whole idea of "there is no such thing as an original idea" is utterly stupid. It's just a hyperbole and some people are taking it literally. Of course there are original ideas. "C is not an original idea, because it's just mixing A and B..." ok so there are only two possbilities: 1. Someone else did mixing A and B before. Okay then we can recursively find the first person who mixed A and B. 2. No one else did mix…

I’ve always interpreted statements like “there’s no such thing as an original idea” or “everything’s a remix” not literally, but rather as a reminder that new ideas are born from a cultural context and the ideas in it, using those ideas like a language of creative expression.

I often take it a step further and use it as a reminder that new ideas are rarely born from one person but rather the contributions of many, each too small to be noticed as an “original idea”, but when viewed collectively, can be revolutionary.

Re: Not by AI

#236

Post by tnel77 »

version_five wrote: post #118
dale_glass wrote: post #77

I get the concerns with AI, but this kind of thing has always looked odd to me. Like imagine a label on a thing that says "Made without CNC machinery". So instead of finishing the thing on a CNC mill, they instead stuck it on a Bridgeport manual mill, and finished by hand. Or somebody finished the cast with a file. Okay, and so? In the end, a hammer is a hammer. If it hammers well, what difference does it make how it…

I can see a difference for creative works. I'd be more interested to know that I'm looking at something an artist did intentionally than something sampled from a manifold of similar works. Just like I'd rather (all things being equal) have a real drawing or painting than a print. You can make analogies in other art forms too. And if someone is going to send me a sales pitch or email that GPT wrote, I'd rather they do…

You could argue that the hammer from the previous example is a creative work.

A hammer, a pair of shoes, a leather sofa, etc. They all have an element of craftsmanship and it seems like people who do that work usually take pride in it from an artistic and quality standpoint.

Re: Not by AI

#237

Post by reaperducer »

raincole wrote: post #104
gspencley wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philosophical food for thought: if all content is recycled / mixed from the past, when did innovation and creativity stop? In other words, if there is truly no such thing as an "original idea", then how did the ideas that we are pulling from, deriving from and combining come into existence? If all we are saying is that existing ideas inspire new ones, or that most human generated content is derivative, then I complet…

The whole idea of "there is no such thing as an original idea" is utterly stupid. It's just a hyperbole and some people are taking it literally. Of course there are original ideas. "C is not an original idea, because it's just mixing A and B..." ok so there are only two possbilities: 1. Someone else did mixing A and B before. Okay then we can recursively find the first person who mixed A and B. 2. No one else did mix…

"C is not an original idea, because it's just mixing A and B..."

"A fax machine is just a telephone and a waffle iron!" —Abraham Simpson

Re: Not by AI

#238

Post by donatj »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #228
donatj wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "1%" original is almost always just 1% uncited/unknown inspiration. If you listen to the stories of how things like major inventions came into being, it's almost always some domain expert visited some domain in which they were not an expert and inspiration struck on how to combine the domains. Otherwise, the rest of invention is either human imitations or improvements to things found in nature or not inventions…

So Ramanujan with no formal training in mathematics was really surrounded by advanced education of mathematics and had no original ideas? I feel if more people studied philosophy they may discover how problematic these reductions are.

Math isn't a human invention at all. It's the discovery of the nature of the universe and an expression of the world around us.

Re: Not by AI

#240

Post by zirgs »

Sol- wrote: post #65
transitivebs wrote: post #2

A quote I heard recently that really resonated with me: "Soon, asking a writer if they use AI will be like asking a photographer if they use Photoshop" – e.g., it's a foregone conclusion, and the best artists will generally adapt to using the best tools available

But then the AI is the writer and you're just an editor or curator. So perhaps don't call yourself a writer if the AI produced a significant amount of the content. Same goes for Stable Diffusion/Midjourney prompters who shouldn't really call themselves artists. (Things would of course change if they do significant postprocessing of the output, though I'd still think this is much easier than coming up with something n…

Are Pollock or Malevich real artists? Their work doesn't require great technical skill.
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