No way in hell that Amazon is going to risk losing its tax kickbacks by not meeting their location numbers.
Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
231–240 of 278 posts
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#232I mean, according levels.fyi AMZ pays 400K+ total compensation. I don't think that would be too hard to fill up the office with the willing office.
But your cost of living goes up if you have to commute and/or live close enough to use public transportation to get to the offices. The cities FAANG companies are located in don't seem to be exactly cheap.
I think median salary for full time employment in Seattle is surely below 100k and yet people live there somehow. 4x of median should be great, no?
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand what you're saying about entitlement. It can be tiresome to hear the same topics brought up repeatedly. With the constant negativity that surrounds it, it gets exhausting to listen to. At the same time, most of those complaints are coming from generally reasonable people. If a company promised no RTO and then went back on it, that'd be frustrating for them. If a company can't state why they want to go RT…
> beyond some hand-wavey "collaboration" answer that companies are giving I'm confused what the alternative is that you would like. I'm sure they can link a bunch of studies that show its more productive to work in office, and I'm guessing those that want to stay remote will show a bunch of other studies that say its not; which continues ad nauseam.
I went down this rabbit hole on another RTO thread. Bottom line, it’s all a matter of feeling. Management wanting RTO feels it’s more productive for the org. WFH advocates wants remote work because they feel that they are more productive at home. Reality, both sides cannot really provide a lot of hard evidence to support their position, but the only position that really matters is the company’s position. If they want to RTO, it’s up to the employees to sell the company on WFH…and then be able to deliver measurable results exceeding expectations.
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#234The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…
In Amazon's case, it might not be theater. Amazon owns around a dozen skyscrapers in downtown Seattle. Amazon has a massive number of employees in downtown Seattle, and whether those people are downtown or not makes a significant difference to the real estate values in downtown Seattle. Making their employees come into the office may in fact mean a significant financial reward to Amazon, but not because the employees…
Amazon looked deep into the crystal ball, got a shit response from it, and made a colossal one-way door blunder that will ultimately sink the company as they will not remain competitive with younger hungrier actually-day-one companies and embrace modern workplace trends. If I am forced back into the office, I will simply quit and never even consider working at this place again. Everyone is replaceable and I’m no exception, but the slack channel is full of fellow PEs who feel the same way. More than enough reserves to make it to a better market or beyond if there’s nothing compelling in the short-term.
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you’re saying, being remote is okay as long as that remote in another office?
Hah, that does seem to be what the companies are saying, which is entirely silly. My personal take is that RTO mandates are sorely misguided. Let the people who want an office work in them, and let the people who want to be remote be remote! The net difference is pretty close to nil, especially at large companies where meetings are teleconferencing-by-default! If anything productivity has increased in the remote era.…
Your perspective is flawed, it’s about further headcount reduction without severance, making good on tax break criteria, and building up a blind core of missionaries.
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
imho Amazon has a big problem with its image and hiring. It is literally impossible to find good developers that want to work for Amazon. Taking advantage of the current market conditions to do this is going to spectacularly backfire once the market recovers.
They have been able to grow to almost a trillion dollars in market cap, during very competitive hiring market conditions, with those image problems. I will be very surprised if any backfiring, much less a spectacular one, happens.
If the growth stops the same tactics stop working.
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#237Let me preface this by saying I don't have much of an opinion for or against RTO, but I feel like there's too much emotion attached to companies mandating RTO by tech employees. I'm at a company that is mandating RTO and for the past couple months there has been tons of whining and moaning in public slack channels, team Q&As, company wide Q&As, HR Q&As, being passive aggressive etc. All this behavior has reeked of im…
The opposite is true. Employees are the ones ultimately doing the work and know what value they add. As they see it, they'd have to make outsized sacrifices to return to the office. Businesses have not provided any compelling reason to come back to the office, the actual workers doing the work know how little value it adds to their own stand-alone job. Raising the subject of maintaining remote work rather than pursui…
Employees often have a pretty inflated understanding of how much value they truly provide an organization. Your only slightly more valuable than your replacement sitting in the wings, and only then it’s for a relatively short period of time.
Employees need to be providing the compelling reason to the company about why WFH is better.
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess it depends on the circumstances. Like if they were told they could go full remote, and the employee moved out of state and settled down somewhere where there is no office, now to be told j/k get back in here, seems like a case could be made.
There is no case to be made in the US unless the constructive dismissal was discriminatory in nature. It is legal to get people to quit by making working conditions worse, as long as you don't break any employment laws by doing so. Say that I want you some of my employees to quit. I say you are only allowed to have meetings while doing handstands, but I provide reasonable accommodation for disabled people who can't d…
Of course it’s discriminatory based on age, familial status, and disabilities. There’s data, just wait.
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
But your cost of living goes up if you have to commute and/or live close enough to use public transportation to get to the offices. The cities FAANG companies are located in don't seem to be exactly cheap.
I think median salary for full time employment in Seattle is surely below 100k and yet people live there somehow. 4x of median should be great, no?
A quick google search shows that median income seems well above 100k
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-media...
https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Housing/Proper...
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/seattlecitywash...
Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think median salary for full time employment in Seattle is surely below 100k and yet people live there somehow. 4x of median should be great, no?
A quick google search shows that median income seems well above 100k https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-media... https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Housing/Proper... https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/seattlecitywash...
Household slightly above, however levels.fyi is about individual compensation.