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Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

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231–240 of 273 posts

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#231

There’s a better solution; regulate, fine and breakup unscrupulous drug companies. Hang on, isn’t insulin pricing the exact sort of thing anti-cartel/anti-competitive laws are meant to prevent?

Yes, fining and breaking up companies that spend billions on R&D is a great way to encourage innovation.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#232
post #85

This is a failure of the free market. When companies get too big, and no longer compete, they should be regulated. The free market only works when there's a ... free ... market.

You mean the same free market that produces most of the new, innovative drugs we have today?

The same free market entities that produced covid vaccines in record time?

That free market?

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making an example out of insulin would fix that No it won't. It will just shift the cost to the taxpayers.

Who do you think is paying now? States are spending billions on it through Medicaid cost share. A state like California with a contract manufacturer would probably break even on the insulin and save billions for reduced complications. Poor people with diabetes are frequent fliers for ER admissions. The cost of one ER visit is probably close to annual insulin cost.

> Who do you think is paying now?

It'll cost even more when the government takes it over. There's a reason why central economic planning results in poverty.

Instead, reduce the regulation and laws and interference by the government so that competitors can sprout.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#235

Don't believe in Gavin Newsom's new bullshit. Last I heard about this, a Vial of generic insulin was going to be $35. Walmart sells the same insulin (regular or suspended varieties) for $25 It is just a publicity ploy. Even at $25/vial, Walmart insulin has a very nice mark-up. Why buy it from state of CA for a more expensive price tag? To boot all of this, if you do not have health insurance, Walmart sells the insuli…

You're doubting the competence of the same government that's bringing Californians a bullet train, some day real soon now? Jeez, what a cynic.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit like saying we should defund the police. It's thought provoking and grabs headlines. It even has some merit, but it's ultimately not the solution. Reform the FDA, sure I can support that. The FDA, from my perspective, plays such a huge and important role in our society and showcases the exact things we need from our government. They are an example of a government entity that mostly gets the job done righ…

In 1938, the FDA started reviewing and approving drugs. In 1960, Richardson-Merrell applied for approval for a drug called Thalidomide, a cancer treatment. They had clinical trials that included pregnant women. They were rejected six times . In the UK, The Distillers Company (Biochemicals) Ltd, a subsidiary of Distillers Co. Ltd marketed thalidomide as Distaval, a remedy for morning sickness. Their advertisement clai…

I remember reading an archived copy of the FDA press release after they finally approved beta-blockers, a medicine that had been approved and widely distributed in Europe for some ten years. In the press release, the FDA was proud to announce that as a result of their approval, beta blockers would save the lives of an estimated 10,000 Americans every year.

That is to say, the inefficiency of the FDA was, in the words of the FDA itself, directly responsible for the premature deaths of 100,000 Americans. And that was for beta-blockers alone.

I laughed when watching an FDA press conference during covid, where the spokesman said that the agency was streamlining approval measures to get covid vaccines approved faster. A journalist asked if this would negatively impact the safety or efficacy of the vaccine to which the FDA head confidently replied that it would have zero material impact. It makes you wonder, if they are capable of quickly making approval decisions without sacrificing safety or efficacy standards, why is that not standard operating procedure? There are no answers that don't lead one to conclude that the FDA is a bloated, bureaucratic, wasteful mess.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#237
post #214
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with the statement that some of the language around the lack of insulin availability is misleading, but it's not just that it's more convenient. "Fancy" insulin allows one to better manage blood glucose levels. Poorly managed blood glucose strains various organs/systems in the body and over years and decades leads to various health complications, some resulting in death. (It's still a lot of work and stres…

I dont mean to be dismissive or elitist. There is enough wrong with the medical system, that if somebody loses coverage and needs to see a doctor to get their prescription changed, that change alone becomes insurmountable, behavioral change not included. My rub is that the conversation is dishonest. Saying "access to insulin is a right" and then changing the topic to modern delivery methods and such. Call a spade a s…

I think a big problem is that short acting insulin, which was available 25 years ago, used to cost $9usd / 10 mL bottle now costs ~$80 with insurance (in california) or $200+ list price for an effectively equivalent short acting insulin. (numbers were from my insurance statements which include the cost for current prices, and from a family member who was on the pharma board at one of the large managed health facilities in california in the 90s.

To me, that cost inflation is purely artificial and not driven by any new tech relating to the insulin itself.

For T1 diabetics, the cost increases have been moving to insulin pumps which have infusion set costs in addition to the actual pump, and for continuous glucose sensors.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#238
post #145
post #140

Why can California not import Indian I nsulin? I thought thr Indian pharmaceutical industry was well able to make it, why not just buy it?

So we make a law that says a product's intellectual property is protected and cant be copied. Someone in another country copies it, without paying. Then it's legal to import it? Seems like a very roundabout way when we could just ignore intellectual property laws directly, at home. The same applies to "importing things from Canada." Why the ruse?

> So we make a law that says a product's intellectual property is protected and cant be copied

It is out of patent.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#239
post #238
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we make a law that says a product's intellectual property is protected and cant be copied. Someone in another country copies it, without paying. Then it's legal to import it? Seems like a very roundabout way when we could just ignore intellectual property laws directly, at home. The same applies to "importing things from Canada." Why the ruse?

> So we make a law that says a product's intellectual property is protected and cant be copied It is out of patent.

What is? All the modern expensive insulins have some patent protecting them or have no biosimilar, san one. It's all in the article.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#240
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of formerly protected insulins, e.g. insulin glargine, are off patent now. The remaining moat for generics consists of FDA approval, delivery system patents, and manufacturing process patents/trade secrets. For a generic insulin to get FDA approval it needs bioequivalence which is a lot like running the original safety and effect studies over again, while dealing with spurious injunctions and the like from the…

>insulin glargine, are off patent now. In the U.S.A. is expected to expire on 2027-07-05. How did something invented in 1994/2000, get patented in 2009? https://patents.google.com/patent/US8048854B2/en%3C/

That's a different molecule. It's been animated.
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