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Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

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Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#231

Post by deskpro »

blackhaz wrote: post #134

This ain't as bad as international PayPal... We (EU company) have clients paying from abroad via PayPal. I can't figure out what to do with this. We're being hit with 4.7% PayPal international fee, then ~ 3.75% fee to convert USD to our local currency to withdraw to our bank account. (PayPal won't let us withdraw USD.) Then another 2-3% to convert it back to USD in our bank to pay our supplier in USD. Imagine the tot…

In the UK at least, you can get Paypal to add a US domiciled bank account (on ACH) and pay out that way to avoid this problem; we had to go via support to get that setup. We already had a US bank account (with HSBC) to avoid Stripe's forex charges but it was complicated to setup. A decent alternative is Wise's option; although HSBC have something called HSBC Global Wallet now which would have simplified things a lot.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#232

Post by deskpro »

02thoeva wrote: post #153
meredydd wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Find a UK-domiciled USD account to pay out to. Might be possible - no idea really. Need to look into it. FWIW one of these was readily available from my existing bank (Barclays) last time I needed one (~10yrs ago). Bit of hoop-jumping to go through, but definitely worth it for $30k/year.

Thanks, we'll speak with Barclays then :)

Won't work. It's easy to get a USD bank with Barclays or other UK banks, but Stripe are still adding this 1% fee to pay out $USD wherever it goes.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#233

Post by TheHappyOddish »

dinkblam wrote: post #173
brianwawok wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you will lose every chargeback. Despite evidence including IP logs and screenshots. Easier to just lifeban every customer that does a chargeback vs spend 10 hours dealing with stripe + bank, and still losing, no matter the reason.

> Except you will lose every chargeback we were winning at least 50% of our chargebacks by providing evidence. > Easier to just lifeban every customer true. funny how an instrument that is supposed to combat fraud (by companies), is now mostly used to commit fraud (by consumers)

50% seems incredibly high. Of the 500 odd chargebacks we've had over the years, we've won 2.

Each one we send detailed IP logs, a graph of the customers use of the service, and a letter on the company letterhead stating when the person signed up, what the service is, and how they've used it. Each time (barring those two), we lose.

I'm sure some are legit frauds, but I know factually from speaking to our customers that some of them are just abusing the system of carte blanche by the banks.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#234

Post by bodomalo »

Stripe has the worst DISPUTE Handling on the market. Compared to PAYPAL they simply offer "nothing". They do not help in the communication with the buyer, so the buy has no other option than to start a dispute with the bank. In 15 years I never had one BANK-CHARGEBACK with Paypal - simply because Paypal has installed a communication system between BUYER and SELLER. Stripe not. On Paypal I can work it out with the customer every time, or Paypal will say: "We send back that money", or tells the custome "you got the goods, you loose"

Stripe is comparable expensive (1.5% fee) compared to what big companies pay (0.1%) handling payments. Customers do believe that there is NO FEE at all for payments, they believe they just get back their money. I am handling payments of 0.99 Euros..that has become impossible with STRIPE now, if there is a risk of paying back 20 Euros dispute fee.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#235

Post by bodomalo »

Raed667 wrote: post #10
sleepyhead wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that 3DSecure is required for all European cards we should have been seeing lower fees since that requirement. Instead fees are going up.

How can a user dispute a transaction if they used 3DSecure?

They go to their bank, they say: I have not done that.

And their bank wants to have their customer with them - so they steal the money from the merchant. Thats what they are allowed to do.

Think about it: a) The customers bank is the ONLY judge, they can say: Merchant, you lost the dispute. b) The bank wants to do something in the favour of THEIR customer, why should be bank decide in the favour of a NON-CUSTOMER (the unknown merchant)

This system is complete bogus, nonsense and just stupid.

There is around 0,1% customers around who are just a...holes and try to get back some money. If they know how the system works, they do it. For example: If you loose your credit card you can go to the bank and say: All payments before date XY are not mine. There might be 1 illegal payment, but they can say: Everything since November was fraud. Bank will believe them.

I have "online customers" who did that, and I did not even get their contact details to sue them.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#236

Post by bodomalo »

lxgr wrote: post #226
sleepyhead wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that disputes are 100% from Americans who are encouraged by banks to "just do a dispute" anytime they are dissatisfied with anything. And in 100% of these cases it is customers who forgot to cancel or just didn't need the service as much, not really any actual dissatisfaction. Most fraud is stopped by Stripe and not really a big issue, in some cases we do a manual check and it is obvious fraud (no ac…

On the other hand, the existence of a consumer-leaning disputes resolution system, while pretty unfair to merchants in some situations, is probably a big accelerator for e-commerce in general. I'm much more likely to enter my card number somewhere online knowing that I'll be made whole if something doesn't work out than knowing I'll have to fight for my money back, submit evidence I might not have etc. Just like with…

The system you talk about is called PAYPAL.

Paypal is able to step in BETWEEEN - bevore the customer is able to start a stupid and complicated CHARGEBACK at his bank. Very often you loose a paypal case. But: That means only the CHARGE(money) goes back, but the bank can not take a 35$ fee for chargeback too.

You understand?

I am selling 99 cent downloads. On Paypal I loose nothing (99 Cent goes back) On stupid systems like stripe, where they do not handle any customer-communication - I loose 20 Euros + 99 Cent. Complete desaster.

I will add a 5 Cent extra fee to stripe payments in the future to handle that high chargeback fee. That will work into paypals hands.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#237

Post by bodomalo »

gggggg5 wrote: post #174
sleepyhead wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that is not even remotely legal in any country with decent consumer protection.

Why not? Could you give an example as to why this would not be legal in some country of your choice?

Boy, it is not legal in ANY European Union country. Ok?

Especially online, the law says: Customer gets back ALL of his money, every cent.

You will be sued by customer protections in a minute if you act like that. Do you seriously run a business???

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#238

Post by bodomalo »

gggggg5 wrote: post #117
jermaustin1 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and when it gets charged back, you have to eat the 20 again?

Perhaps charge a chargeback fee of 40 euros? It'll cover both of the chargeback fees you'll have to pay stripe.

Are you 5 years old? Waste of time to talk to you

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#239

Post by bodomalo »

brianwawok wrote: post #168
Aeolun wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This strikes me as weird. It’s very normal. It’s why a lot of services immediately ban you for life if you ever issue a chargeback (regardless of validity). Stripe was the sole sensible service out there (that I know of) where chargebacks wouldn’t hit a small business as hard as long as they could prove they were in the right. But it seems Stripe is becoming everything it originally railed against.

Except you will lose every chargeback. Despite evidence including IP logs and screenshots. Easier to just lifeban every customer that does a chargeback vs spend 10 hours dealing with stripe + bank, and still losing, no matter the reason.

Correct, Stripe system is useless.

Bank decides what they want to give their customer back. They ignore all your facts. Why should the BANK give a stranger money, if they can give money to their customer?

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#240

Post by bodomalo »

dinkblam wrote: post #214
brianwawok wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of evidence is that, for what kind of chargeback? I have literal screenshots of a customer saying the opposite of the complaint, and still lost.

just screenshots from the server backend showing that the customer has actually used the product he has purchased as well as written confirmation that we never received a request for a refund > saying the opposite of the complaint, and still lost. yeah. even if its obvious that the customer made a fraudulent chargeback, you may loose. my only point was that not all chargebacks are lost, it is possible to win a good p…

You are not singed up with stripe. You never had a chargeback You do not know anything about reality. Sorry - wake up bro.
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