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Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

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Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#231

Oh my sweet summer child.... As someone who lived through the .COM crash and implosion and then 2008, any company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability" is not making more money than they are spending. They are, to use the SV term - losing runway. This is catastrophic because it's infeasible to raise money right now to extend the runway. If the plane is not airborne (making significantly more m…

So I work for a company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability", and I was a child in 2008. We haven't done any layoffs yet, but it's definitely possible. Any advice for someone in my position with no recession experience?

Always a good time to check in with old friends and coworkers who respect your work.

If things get bad be prepared to make significant changes, like moving to an area with more opportunity, etc.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#232
post #24

I really get the feeling that many companies are just blindly doing whatever other companies do. One starts large layoffs, and suddenly everybody is doing it. At other times, when one goes on a hiring spree, they all go. One tries to reduce salaries, they all do. One pays enormous bonuses, and they all do. It's like CEOs aren't really thinking for themselves, just copying whatever the market does.

> I really get the feeling that many companies are just blindly doing whatever other companies do. A social contagion if you will. It doesn’t seem rational at all at this point. Hopefully some of the more naive people in the industry learn something from this. Your employer would happily kill your if it were legal and they made a cent more doing so, let alone something less like fire you.

> It doesn’t seem rational at all at this point.

Layoffs are rational and are common in downward cycles.

I get the feeling that a lot of the shock and awe here is due to age and a lot of people starting their careers during an extended boom period, particularly in tech which was getting absurd. The last few years in particular were far from rational.

Now the Fed is raising interest rates, housing is cooling, cheap money is no more ... and as a result you get a downward business cycle resulting in layoffs.

I don't see anything new here that hasn't happened over and over again ... but I've been in the industry for decades with multiple companies and sectors.

These companies aren't charities, they aren't meant to retain jobs just because they are profitable, and they definetly aren't your friend. Many of them are publically traded, which at the end of the day are beholden to one and one thing only, the shareholders.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#233
I'm wondering how many of the commenters on these threads have been around for long enough to experience pervious layoff events? The reality is that any company has 5-10% staff that aren't really doing anything useful, and can be fired without significant impact to business operations. So it's more that companies don't just fire those people every year because normally various kinds of negative blowback would ensue. The reason we're seeing layoffs now is basically that the conditions are such that said blowback is reduced. In other words: it's in fashion (in Elite circles) and they can get away with it.

Of course often the appropriate 5-10% aren't actually the target of layoffs, but that's an orthogonal problem.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google hasn’t really demonstrated a good track record of revolutionary launches. Doing so requires risk and long term investment and vision. Bigger companies have more to lose with risk and thus take much “safer” risks because CEO and middle management are incentivized to do that - risky bets might cause you to be on the losing side of a bet and end up regressing from where you are now. Risky bets are also how you ca…

> Google hasn’t really demonstrated a good track record of revolutionary launches. I disagree. Search was the original product, and since then, Google has launched the following other products/technologies that I would also describe as revolutionary: Gmail, Maps, Android, Chrome, Ads/AdSense, YouTube (depending on who you give credit to), MapReduce, Kubernetes, TPUs, TensorFlow, and I'm sure I'm missing some. The tra…

I expect a retort like this because it’s so common.

And to be clear. I’m not talking about technical infrastructure pieces (eg k8s was kept in house for forever as Borg and then an open source version was built when it was clear they could sell it). Google has a lot of good pieces there and whether or not you can scale is mostly (but not fully) question of being right. When it’s a question of being right on a binary question, these soft politics phenomena disappear because reality is immune to that.

However.

Search: yes. Their first product alongside ads. Today it still represents something like 80% of ALL Alphabet revenue (and probably a much larger share of the profit provided). Anyway, bad example because search and ads were developed when the company was a startup. By necessity that’s your high risk bet.

Gmail: yes. Still early enough in the company’s DNA to take a bold bet. They’ve totally failed that space though by failing to invest and take gambles. Back in the day this also captured almost all IM traffic because EVERYONE had gmail. Now you might get a fresh can of paint every once in a while but there’s nothing bold. The reason? You have billions of users: if you make any meaningful change you’ll lose the ones that aren’t early adopters, especially if a change in direction has instability or feature loss (see Inbox). See their total incoherence on what to do about messaging, a problem they wouldn’t even have if they continued to take risks and innovate a decade prior.

Orkut: they could have had a social network. Gave up on it before truly figuring out how to make it work. Then G+ as an emergency Hail Mary that went nowhere for many reasons, not least of which is that bold risks need to still start small and grow and they went immediately for the billion+ market (notice the copy of GMails rollout strategy that was a poor imitation and failed to realize why that worked - cache and buzz driving “must have this” demand instead of a product copy that was meh and invitations that were more just how far away you were from the elite).

Speaking of social. Google Wave. See: Slack eating their lunch here. Heck, even FB workplace is miles ahead of Google Chat which still can’t figure out scrolling, scheduling posts and reminders, and requesting messages to be silent.

Maps: yes, fantastic. They’ve failed to keep innovating and taking bets here though. Notice the acquisition of Waze. In the long run, expect Maps to falter. The only saving grace is that Maps is important to their ad strategy so as long as users and revenue are aligned they won’t let it get too bad.

Android: first, acquisition. 2. Bold bet that had leadership buy-in for same reason as Oculus at FB - you have to own the platform if you’re an advertising company as otherwise the owner of the platform has you by the balls. See Chrome.

Chrome: yup. Fantastic innovative bold product at launch. Since then, mediocre incremental value with no new bold risk-taking ideas (unless you count pissing off loyal users and enthusiasts).

Ads/Adsense: see above. Too early in the company’s life + it’s 80% of their revenue. They don’t take any bold bets with this cash cow.

YouTube: acquisition. See above - failure to capitalize on social graph, failure to take meaningful innovation risks instead of slowly and methodically growing the business.

MapReduce: neat technical idea that actually preexisted Google’s idea. Google has largely abandoned it anyway afaik as other techniques work better / have better modern tools.

Spanner: this one has some staying power and is innovative but it feels like they continue to fail to innovate here.

TPUs: not bold or revolutionary. Take existing embarrassingly parallel problem you’re running on GPUs and build an ASIC. They’ve done excellent innovation and technical work here. Don’t get me wrong. But it’s not been a huge risky bet leading the market (and they don’t even sell TPUs as standalone units you can buy which would be truly a risky bet to eat their own cloud offering).

So in essence, they’ve always been slowing down for a long time and most of the things you listed as big risky bets just aren’t that. Certainly none of the technical stuff - that’s driven by in-house demand / obvious market demand. I’m talking about changing the rules of the market. If you own the market you’re not going to change the rules because you might not end up on top. See Clayton Christensen. I do think we should limit the ability for a market leader to enter new spaces though and how much they can charge. Once you’re big your ability to manipulate the markets creates meaningful market inefficiencies. The common belief is that these get sorted out over time but I’m not so sure / I’m not sure that regulations can’t help shorten how long market inefficiencies promulgate.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why it is important to fire people who push regressions to production. Accountability is important!

Maybe? Depends on the severity of the regression, how much it cost, whether there was negligence or carelessness involved etc. And arguably you'd first fire the person who set up a process that allows regressions to be pushed to prod so easily. Underperformance is not a single mistake. It's a pattern of behaviors that compound.

Yep, we just had this happen with a newer staff member. When we contacted the primary maintainer of the regressed system, they replied “you need to overwrite XYZ binary/config files using the backup build from ABC machine after patching”… like how is this suitable for a prod scenario? We’d have been foolish to fire the new staff member who technically pushed the regression.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would venture that word of mouth is spreading among the elites who are on the boards of all these companies - a storm is coming so everything needs to get tied down - so the CEO’s as captains of the ships are following the advice. Whether the storm actually hits, what gets wrecked, what doesn’t. That is a completely separate issue to these people.

What is the storm they're worried about, if not mass layoffs concentrated within an industry? Inflation is almost down to normal, employment is still high and will remain so as long as the construction sector avoids layoffs due to the coming cash infusion from federal spending bills. Seems to me the only storm coming is the one created by these same execs, though I understand each of them is incentivized to follow th…

> Inflation is almost down to normal

Huh? Normal inflation in the US is 2% - that's the Fed's target.

Last month, inflation was 6.5%.

Being 250% above target is not "normal".

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#237

Oh my sweet summer child.... As someone who lived through the .COM crash and implosion and then 2008, any company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability" is not making more money than they are spending. They are, to use the SV term - losing runway. This is catastrophic because it's infeasible to raise money right now to extend the runway. If the plane is not airborne (making significantly more m…

> almost every company could handle this by simply not rehiring after attrition The problem is that there's a selection bias for attrition. It's possible that your worst employees are the ones who stick around the longest.

Absolutely valid - the equation shifts quote a lot during down markets, because top performers tend to fly to stability - and usually that is a incumbent situation.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#238

Oh my sweet summer child.... As someone who lived through the .COM crash and implosion and then 2008, any company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability" is not making more money than they are spending. They are, to use the SV term - losing runway. This is catastrophic because it's infeasible to raise money right now to extend the runway. If the plane is not airborne (making significantly more m…

So I work for a company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability", and I was a child in 2008. We haven't done any layoffs yet, but it's definitely possible. Any advice for someone in my position with no recession experience?

You need an emergency fund and you need to cut expenses right away. I'd also practice interviewing. I have a leetcode routine I do. But keep in mind, interviewing is going to be hard with very good competition.

  Sunday - Stack | Queue | Priority Queue (Heap)
  Monday - String | Math
  Tuesday - Tree | Dynamic Programming
  Wednesday - BFS | DFS
  Thursday - Graph
  Friday - Linked List
  Saturday - Sabbath

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#239

Oh my sweet summer child.... As someone who lived through the .COM crash and implosion and then 2008, any company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability" is not making more money than they are spending. They are, to use the SV term - losing runway. This is catastrophic because it's infeasible to raise money right now to extend the runway. If the plane is not airborne (making significantly more m…

So I work for a company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability", and I was a child in 2008. We haven't done any layoffs yet, but it's definitely possible. Any advice for someone in my position with no recession experience?

Don't overly panic - keep your head down and do good work. At the same time, put off discretionary purchases and ensure that you have a few months of emergency liquidity setup if possible. (not always possible).

Keep a eye on linkedIn for connections who are hiring and make sure to stay connected.

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