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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#231

Post by jrochkind1 »

bt1a wrote: post #93
jrochkind1 wrote: post #76

This is kind of strange. Is it really fentanyl-specific, or does it effect all opioids? Problems either way; if just fentanyl, then, duh, that's not the only way to get high. If all opioids... So it makes opioids no longer available for pain relief... forever? ("vaccine"?). (Major surgery and recovery without opioids is no walk in the park, it's PTSD-inducing excruciating pain). It claims to block the ability to get…

This is an incredible opportunity to save lives. You need to familiarize yourself with accidental opioid overdose deaths. Most people who die from a fentanyl overdose were not intending to ingest fentanyl. Fentanyl is often used to boost the strength of more expensive opioids sold on the street. Fentanyl is very cheap to produce compared to heroin or whatever is the flavor of the month pressed pill. People die becaus…

I see what you mean, but:

"Once feared, illicit fentanyl is now a drug of choice for many opioid users: People with opioid-use disorder are increasingly seeking out illicit fentanyl, often smoking it."

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/feared-illicit-fe...

(I really do know that everything you read in popular media about drug use in general, and opioid use specifically, cannot necesssarily be trusted. But my understanding from several sources is that this is so. The fact that fentanyl is cheaper for the effect is a reason a user might choose it too, or it may simply be what is available, or affordable)

Whether users are intentionally seeking and/or aware of getting fentanyl or not, I am saying that the consequences of making someone's dose not have the effect they are looking for can often be that they take more (getting more of all of the substances that were in the dose, known or unknown), or that they switch to an alternate supply/substance. Either of which can have very dangerous outcomes.

I won't tell you what you need to familiarize yourself with, or assume I know what you are or are not familiar with.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#232

Post by ThinkBeat »

I can't see this being a good or sustainable idea.

First it will probably just lead people to find other means of getting high. (if they want to).

Second it might well make drug cartels reformulate the drugs to try to "bypass" the "locks" the vaccine placed. and that might mean even more dangerous versions flooding the market.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#233

Post by Guthur »

schwartzworld wrote: post #210
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

Many people get addicted to drugs after being prescribed them following surgery or injury. I know someone this happened to exactly. They gave him a bunch of opiates for pain management and he took them as directed and wound up an addict. I think a lot fewer people "choose" to get addicted to medicine in this way than either you or the GP are implying.

And now big pharma will "cure" them of the disease they pushed.

Also how is it a vaccine?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#234

Post by htag »

calibas wrote: post #186
htag wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It speaks of enormous corruption and a complete lack of ethics when regulators didn't see an issue with fentanyl and let it move forward. Do you think there would be a meaningful difference in the volume of illicit fentanyl if it was never approved by the FDA?

If the manufacturers and regulators were more concerned with human lives than making money, they would have quietly buried the research. It may have entered the illegal market eventually, but there wouldn't be factories producing large quantities of the drug like there are now. They should have known that an opioid 50 times more potent, deadlier, and more addictive than heroin would be responsible for the worst drug…

I think we fundamentally disagree here. There might be some 20:20 hindsight way to completely avoid the opioid crisis (especially with the behavior of Purdue Pharma), but from my perspective if Fentanyl (or other potent synthetic opioid) reaches illicit manufacturing it almost always becomes a dominate force in the black market. The cost, strength, and ease of smuggling are big perks. Regulators have little impact on what black market drug labs produce.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#235

Post by anigbrowl »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

While these points are valid, it's also a highly individualistic perspective. Social bodies have complexities and dynamics of their own. The obsessive pursuit of financial and political resources could also be seen as a kind of addiction, optimizing for one thing to an unhealthy degree while refusing to contemplate the negative consequences. There are certainly big payoffs to be had this way, but foreclosure of other possibilities can eventually lead to a dead end. A more harmonious, proportionate approach may not be as dramatic or impressive, but endure better.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#236

Post by elektrontamer »

arghnoname wrote: post #226
newsclues wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a healthy amount of drugs. For people with self control like that, I think it would be healthy to trip once or twice a year and use stimulants (cocaine) for a party once a year. A heroin vacation to an opium den on occasion sounds wonderful. I certainly have used drugs socially (LSD in clubs or concerts can be fun), but also use them cannabis alone frequently.

This is the crazy thing about this whole issue. Some people can use drugs that are extremely harmful responsibly. It's a once-in-a-while excursion away from ordinary life. There's nothing wrong with having a scary drug, like heroin, a few times a year...except that for some people it leads to their entire life unraveling. This idea that we're all the same and because drugs are physically addictive (i.e., sustained us…

I appreciate the selflessness and pragmatism. Many responsible users are much more dismissive of prohibition.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#237

Post by plusminusplus »

Perenti wrote: post #227
plusminusplus wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you know what want Fentanyl to work [sic] Your concerns are addressed in the article you're commenting on

Not really. There are people for whom Fentanyl is the only real choice for use _during_ surgery. I'm one of them, and I don't want doctors mucking about inside my chest without ample pain relief.

Interesting, can you explain why fentanyl is the only real choice, instead of alternatives, please?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#238

Post by floor2 »

l33t233372 wrote: post #80
floor2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sell a new product to help solve the mess that one of their previous products created That's gotta describe like 75% of US healthcare budget, right? Red Dye #40, BPA, preservatives, emulsifiers, PFAS -> ADHD, Anxiety, Depression -> Adderall, Xanax, Prozac Sugar, seed oils, preservatives, endocrine-disrupting chemicals in food, water & air -> Obesity, hypertension, diabetes -> Lipitor, Insulin Alcohol, smoked/grilled…

I don’t think there’s a reputable link between red dye #40, BPA, preservatives, emulsifiers(?!) and ADHD, anxiety, and depression. Further, are you claiming meat, tobacco, and alcohol are products of the US pharmaceutical industry?

Literally everything on this list is supported by publicly available, peer-reviewed papers that could be found by 30 seconds of googling, but people downvote instead of being curious and learning something.

Here's a layman-friendly article that covers several papers on red dye #40: https://www.verywellhealth.com/red-dye-40-adhd-5220957

Here's a page from Columbia university on BPA: https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/research/columbia-cent... with quote "Researchers have linked BPA to developmental and health problems in children, including learning and behavior conditions like Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder (ADHD), anxiety and depression"

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#239

Post by AndrewDavis »

schwartzworld wrote: post #210
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

Many people get addicted to drugs after being prescribed them following surgery or injury. I know someone this happened to exactly. They gave him a bunch of opiates for pain management and he took them as directed and wound up an addict. I think a lot fewer people "choose" to get addicted to medicine in this way than either you or the GP are implying.

When I was a teenager I was prescribed tramadol after a surgery.

I was in considerable pain so I took it as directed. It was hell a strong stuff and I basically slept 18 hours a day.

A week later I was still in pain, but less. I reduced my dosage below the prescription to only take a dose before bed to make it easier to stay asleep.

Well, did I notice the effects of dependence. It was subtle but throughout the day I'd have intrusive thoughts along the lines of "I haven't had a painkiller yet, I should have one"

If I'd taken the prescribed dose till completion I'd hate to think what my brain would have done.

That scared me enough at the right age that I've never taken illicit drugs. And any time I'm prescribed painkillers Ive ignored the dosage and take just enough to manage.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#240

Post by notch656c »

hammock wrote: post #177
kstrauser wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re adding Fentanyl to everything now. I have Burning Man-adjacent friends who take ecstasy once a year at festivals, and they’re terrified of getting a tainted dose. This affects many more people than just those addicted to opiates.

Test strips: https://dancesafe.org/ Or on amazon

Test strips are just as or almost as illegal as the drug themselves in many state. Except without the huge profit margins to incentivize dealers to carry them.
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