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HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

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Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#231

Post by dmix »

mastazi wrote: post #127
dmix wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you don't seem to know the book or care to understand my point, I'll keep this post anyway: You don't mainstream technology via your early adopter market. To succeed you need to mature tech and adapt it to a general market. So the fact some rarely-enforced children protection laws or hypothetical cultural parenting rules might hurt VR IF the only market was merely kids in the long run is bad, sure. But that's n…

FWIW where the original comment said > It's not something you can do with kids around I think the author of that comment meant that if you have little kids, you need to keep an eye on them, and playing with a headset that blocks your peripheral vision is not going to be something a parent can do in that situation. That comment didn't mean to say that kids would not play VR. It was suggesting that parents wouldn't.

Again all I'm saying is what matters is that enough kids do in fact play VR, today, to fuel the tech so it can mature into a mainstream technology. The only way this hypothetical (future) parent issue would discredit VR as a mainstream technical innovation is for VR companies to have bet solely on causal/kid gaming for their long term success.

This is why OP missed the point. Because I didn't agree that that was an important point he a) got emotional for being disagreed with b) assumed that I thought it wasn't true. But I only ever said it didn't matter, not that parents or regulations dont have power in this dynamic.

Evidence points to Quest 2 being very popular among kids and their casual gaming platform via Android-esque VR games has provided a strong and sufficient market from which multiple companies can mature the technology to a wider market.

It was a faulty premise to dismiss the technology, because it fundamentally mischaracterizes how technology normally mainstreams (by first having a real and successful initial early adopter market from which you adapt and mature to mainstream markets - not betting on early adopters to BE the mainstream).

Although I will agree I probably should have said "yes you're right" so OP didn't feel I misunderstood. Altough if he wasn't so quick to win an internet "fight" he might have let me explain.

Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#232

Post by dmix »

shkkmo wrote: post #202
dmix wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you don't seem to know the book or care to understand my point, I'll keep this post anyway: You don't mainstream technology via your early adopter market. To succeed you need to mature tech and adapt it to a general market. So the fact some rarely-enforced children protection laws or hypothetical cultural parenting rules might hurt VR IF the only market was merely kids in the long run is bad, sure. But that's n…

> (Edit sniping is your problem, my goal isn't to win fast-paced internet arguments but to communicate my points as well as I can) It is a problem for everyone who reads the comment thread. Please either wait to post long enough re-read and edit, or indicate which sentences have been added later. (Edit: the latter is commonly done like this.)

He replied to 2 of my comments In the future I will take this into consideration re: using "Edit:" for people who reply before you even notice.

Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#233

Post by Haga »

jesuscript wrote: post #19

Form factor for AR is literally like nuclear fusion at the moment. I don’t know when they are going to get it looking like normal fucking glasses, but until then, no one is going outside with this shit. They have to pivot this soon enough to a cheap at-home AR thingy. VR headsets are getting smaller at least: https://en.shiftall.net/products/meganex I would suspect Apple will never release something that isn’t as sma…

[dead]

Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#234

Post by chaostheory »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #214
chaostheory wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR has a lot of problems, but that’s not one of them. The only thing you’ve proven is that you have yet to use modern VR within the last three years. The main problem is that the current VR device form factor is so intimidating for most people that they won’t even bother putting it on to try it. Instead, they’ll just make a lot of bad assumptions about a product that they haven’t actually tried yet for a good amount…

The intimidation aspect is interesting here. I'm old enough to remember people being intimidated by the big scary computer on the desk. People being weirded out by VR and prophesying that it's just a fad very much so reminds me of the same responses to computers.

I do feel that are we are now in that same era for VR where there is a huge barrier to mass adoption. I believe only Apple can move the industry ahead at this point

Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#235

Post by carbocation »

gpderetta wrote: post #188
carbocation wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the latter is -referanke, all other things being equal. Based on the letters, I think "-referanke" is a typo for "preferable." Out of curiosity, do you type the 'b' key with your right hand?

Right hand was probably one-off the home row.

Agreed. I type 'b' with my left hand which is why I was asking. E.g., if I had my right hand in the same spot, the 'b' would have been correct but the rest would have been the same.

Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#236

Post by galaxyLogic »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #140
zdragnar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR is, IMHO, a fundamentally flawed concept. To immerse yourself, you need to block out your peripheral vision and everything else. The average, casual user isn't going to do that on a regular basis. It's not something you can do with kids around if you need to keep an eye on them, unlike a book or a TV show or even a game on your phone or laptop. Fundamentally, immersion is a selling point to a very specific audienc…

But there is Augmented Reality. You could be watching something while the augmented reality tracks your kids on a virtual overlay. It's not too different from having Google driving instructions. You don't immerse yourself in them. But when driving it would be nice not to move your eyes to the small phone screen but instead see it though your VR lenses while at the same time seeing the road ahead through it. Keep your…

I think it's important that Augmented Reality is implemented by mostly the same tech as Virtual Reality.

I think AR is more useful at least to begin with, it helps us in real reality, not in some virtual reality which requires lots of people to be in the SAME virtual reality as you are to be useful. Whereas everything and everybody around you already is in your augmented reality.

Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#237

Post by gernb »

germinalphrase wrote: post #190
gernb wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would it? example: in the video an actor is sitting in a chair, youre in a room with no chairs. What does it show? example: theyre in an open 20x20 foot room, no furniture, your in a 10x10 foot room on your bed. When they walk across their room you'd seen them first walk througb your bed and then walk through your wall etc...

AR is all about location based augmentations. If I’m in a room with no chairs, there would be no chairs unless one is added visually. They wouldn’t walk through my bed because they aren’t in my room.

You have that backward

> If I’m in a room with no chairs, there would be no chairs unless one is added visually. > They wouldn’t walk through my bed because they aren’t in my room.

If you're sitting on your bed with your AR googles there is a bed in your room. If they are standing in their room they'll be standing or sitting through your bed. They have no concept of where your bed is because your bed doesn't exist in their room.

Tons of AR demos try to show this feature. Tons of companies are working on it. Most believe it's a mass market feature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d59O6cfaM0

https://youtu.be/uVEALvpoiMQ?t=55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG3tQYlZ6JQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd2GK0qDtRg

But it's unlikely to work because each person's surroundings don't match every other persons. One's at a desk, One's at a cafe, One's in their bed, One's on their soft. They aren't each positioned in a way they can all appear in each others AR.

Maybe this will make it clearer. Imagine you're on your bed laying down. You want to AR video conference with your friend. They're in the bathroom. Where does their AR project your body? Your body is laying down. There's no place to project your body in the bathroom that fits you lying down.

Re: HoloKit relaunched, $129 AR Headset accessory for iPhone

#238

Post by germinalphrase »

gernb wrote: post #237
germinalphrase wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AR is all about location based augmentations. If I’m in a room with no chairs, there would be no chairs unless one is added visually. They wouldn’t walk through my bed because they aren’t in my room.

You have that backward > If I’m in a room with no chairs, there would be no chairs unless one is added visually. > They wouldn’t walk through my bed because they aren’t in my room. If you're sitting on your bed with your AR googles there is a bed in your room. If they are standing in their room they'll be standing or sitting through your bed. They have no concept of where your bed is because your bed doesn't exist in…

Right. I kind of think we are talking past each other.

The scenario you’re imagining won’t be an issue because I don’t think AR will allow my “AR presence” to go anywhere that my body is not. AR is about augmented my experience of the reality my body is experiencing, not experiencing ‘realities’ in other locations.

To whatever extent that intentional restriction breaks down, we will have to accept that non-bodily presences cannot fully understand and interact with the environment (and will likely engage with animations to do so).

For your specific bedroom/bathroom scenario, I would choose simple talking heads (floating in space) akin to current expectations for a video chat. There wouldn’t be an attempt to match the speakers to each others environment by default, but if you wanted to do so, yes - one of the speakers would probably need to match their body position such that it can match the environment on the receivers end (so the person laying down would need to stand).

Generically, I think AR will be restricted to the local environment of my body, and anything related to my digital presence traveling to a location different than where my body is found will operate under VR rules (which will be understood as a distinct set of rules/affordances/expectation than AR). We will avoid many problems by not mixing the paradigms.

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