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The strange case of Britain’s demise

economist.com

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Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#231

Post by dogcomplex »

mymythisisthis wrote: post #179
euix wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is a common trend through the west. Here in Canada the current Federal Liberals won the last two election with about 30% of the vote which when you take into account how many people even vote amounts to something like ~5 million people in a country close to 40 million. The kind of overarching policies and rhetoric coming out of government is widely disproportionate to that level of mandate.

The Liberals are in a coalition with the NDP, combined the two parties received a majority of the popular vote. A better example would be Doug Ford in Ontario. Ford's Conservatives received only 41% of the popular vote but took 67% of the seats. The First Past The Post System needs to be retired, it is anti-democratic. Either run-offs or a ranked ballot voting system would be better.

Approval voting or proportional representation would be better, but sure

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#232

Post by akiselev »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #111
mytailorisrich wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corbyn and McDonnell were essentially communists and therefore unelectable. Blair took the realistic route: Socialism does not work, let's have a market economy create wealth that can then be used to finance social programs. A flavour a social democracy. I think a reason Corbyn was so popular among the young is that enough time has passed so that this generation has no idea what socialist countries in Europe were act…

The problem with Blair was that he lost the right on EU/immigration and lost the left on everything else. Brownites sound good but say nothing specific...often the specific stuff is bad too. I agree with you in that there is a route in the centre, but Labour aren't. The party is fundamentally broken. Starmer isn't it, Reeves isn't a leader, Streeting is a joke. Obviously, they have moved to the centre on immigration…

At this point UK government services don’t need reform, they need funding. Austerity has absolutely crippled everything.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#233

Post by JPKab »

neaden wrote: post #172
nailer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re wondering too: gerontocracy is rule by the elderly. And that’s indeed a good description of the US right now.

Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Donald Trump were all born within a year of each other, with Biden being 4 years older. There is a specific generation of politicians Born within a decade period who managed to get elected young and have clung to power in both parties very successfully, see John Bohner, Nancy Pelosi, and Ted Kennedy for other examples.

Tyranny of the boomers, or apathy of gen X?

That's the question I always ask when viewing the gerontocracy.

In academia at least it's been very clear that the boomers were shameless about working long past the time they should retire, preventing gen Xers from rising to top positions.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#234

Post by digianarchist »

monsecchris wrote: post #229
dignick wrote: post #145

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

> Instead it requires Labour to be a very broad house This is a severe disconnection from reality, the Labour party is totally ideologically possessed. 52% of the population voted for Brexit and not a single Labour MP supports it. Not a single Labour MP would ever dream of criticising the NHS system. Not a single Labour MP said a bad word about BLM. The Conservative party are so broad they have everything except actu…

This is complete nonsense.

Quite a few Labour MPs supported Leave [0].

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Leave

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#236

Post by uxcolumbo »

mixtur2021 wrote: post #226

Another day, another anti UK/doomer post on HN. Folks have touched upon this already but a real issue is the chattering classes can simply not get over Brexit. Everything is seen through the prism of either supporting remain or leave. Throw in some confirmation bias. The Economist is particularly guilty here. I don't follow this relish in talking your country down and having such click bait doomer titles - "Britain's…

What is your outlook for the UK?

How do you get over the tribalism?

And how can the UK thrive outside the EU?

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#237

Post by lowbloodsugar »

The UK used to rule the world. It took resources from every continent, brought them to the UK and turned them into goods, which it shipped back out to the world. The industrial revolution occurred in the UK and by the time it occurred elsewhere, the UK had a world dominating navy.

The rest of the world has to try weaning itself off oil. Imagine how hard it is for the UK to be weaning itself off the resources of the entire world.

British people, despite now all being born after the collapse of this empire, still seem to believe they are special and entitled. Certainly they live among evidence of a great culture.

But what does the UK do now? First they let their manufacturing go overseas, because who needs manufacturing when you have great science. But the manufacturing paid for the science and universities. Then they had the "brain drain" as all the scientists moved to the USA (me included). Well that's ok, because we have a great service economy. Oh, wait, no that's gone abroad too. Well finance? We got finance? Uh, Brexit.

The UK is now basically a tax haven, or rather the City of London (which has different laws than the rest of the UK). It also has a side business selling weapons to dictators, and another in olde worlde pageantry, though whether Charles can keep the tourism dollars flowing is another matter.

Now small islands in the carribean make good tax havens. Not a lot of people to support. But the UK thinks it can afford things like the NHS, schools and universities, when it is nothing more than a third world country surrounding the City of London.

If it wasn't for modern communications, the UK would privately be having a dark ages, like what followed the collapse of the Roman Empire. Nobody would know, because nobody would go there. Instead, we get to see the shit-show, live.

The UK is a failed state with nuclear weapons.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#238

Post by raverbashing »

digianarchist wrote: post #234
monsecchris wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead it requires Labour to be a very broad house This is a severe disconnection from reality, the Labour party is totally ideologically possessed. 52% of the population voted for Brexit and not a single Labour MP supports it. Not a single Labour MP would ever dream of criticising the NHS system. Not a single Labour MP said a bad word about BLM. The Conservative party are so broad they have everything except actu…

This is complete nonsense. Quite a few Labour MPs supported Leave [0]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Leave

Especially Corbyn, though of course he couldn't "support it" outright because that would mean agreeing with Tories (and he couldn't oppose it outright without angering a lot of Labour members)

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#239

Post by digianarchist »

raverbashing wrote: post #238
digianarchist wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is complete nonsense. Quite a few Labour MPs supported Leave [0]. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Leave

Especially Corbyn, though of course he couldn't "support it" outright because that would mean agreeing with Tories (and he couldn't oppose it outright without angering a lot of Labour members)

Another rewrite of history. He backed Remain.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#240

Post by wpietri »

mjfl wrote: post #211
dignick wrote: post #145

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

Isn't a parliamentary system effectively proportional representation? It's just prime minister that's first past the post, but from a proportional vote in parliament? Labour is not going to save Britain. They are just going to redistribute money that is more and more and more "not there" anymore. The EU is not going to save Britain, they are having a crisis too. Nothing will save Britain, it is doomed for the next co…

> Isn't a parliamentary system effectively proportional representation?

Not necessarily. Imagine a country with four parties. In each constituency, they respectively get 40%, 30%, 20%, and 10% of the vote. Under FPTP, parliament is made up of all reps from the 40% party, shutting out other voters. Under PR, depending on variety you'd get results closer to the distribution of the votes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

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