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Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

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Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#231

Post by _fat_santa »

sph wrote: post #124
for1nner wrote: post #50

The very first paragraph leads me to believe this is just a rewrite into svelte for the sake of it - I get it, Svelte is the new hotness on the FE-js-block, but this entire post stinks of "someone on the dev team advocated and fluffed enough figures to convince us. So now we're going to tell you why it was the right choice!" I say all this pretty confidently as someone currently maintaining a massive legacy vue2 app…

Excellent observation. This right here is what a senior frontend engineer, that has gone through a couple rewrites and hype cycles, looks like. The fact that they used a popularity contest as justification is laughable: if you have more than 3 years in the field you have experienced the pattern that the new kid on the block, often untested and with smaller mind share, jumps to the top of any "which framework would yo…

Seems like a rewrite for the sake of a rewrite. New frameworks are exciting but if you're building a product you have to realize that's not important to your customers.

Sure if you were on PHP, a rewrite to a JS framework would be worth it, because you could deliver features to your customers faster, less bugs, etc. But once you're in the JS ecosystem, it gets much harder to justify a lateral migration like that. Like what features have they actually picked up as a result of the migration? Or are they just doing it so they can work on flashy new framework? I'm going to guess the latter.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#232

Post by canyonero »

> After using Vue 2 as our front-end framework for almost two years

So a rewrite in less than two years? And Vue 3 was announced over two years ago: https://blog.vuejs.org/posts/vue-3-one-piece.html

The original decision, to me, feels like the wrong one and with no long-term thinking considered. They are now making another poor choice based on framework-hype.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#233

Post by johne20 »

Majestic121 wrote: post #111
johne20 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We built Roomlio entirely with svelte. Large app and many components. Having used react and angular on production apps in the past, I much prefer svelte. That being said, I am sick of framework fatigue and going forward I would probably choose raw web components and a simple template literal based template library like lit-html (not lit element). Write all the other bits ourselves.

If you are sick of framework fatigue, why not sticking with the framework you know ? It seems to me that using raw web components you would end up writing your own custom framework, which would be yet another framework but with probably less support

Its a good question. I should have said I have "dependency fatigue". If we do stick with a framework, it would be Svelte, it has a great Dev UX. Over the years, I have came to the conclusion every dependency is a future problem, especially if pulled in w/o giving it much thought. It takes two hands to count the number of times we had to refactor an app because some client side router changed their API _again_. Writing a small client router that does only what we need is an event listener and switch statement. Javascript/CSS itself has came a long way in the last years as well. I have no plans of building yet-another-framework. Leverage what the browser gives us as much as possible, any annoying boiler plate can be a snippet or generator. Avoiding the complexity that a bundler adds is also a bonus. Tucking logic away in dependencies, whether written by ourselves or others can complicate things.

I am a founder first, and a developer second. My biggest goal is to build products that solve problems and load extremely fast and are as lightweight as possible. The less tech involved the better.

Lastly, this is just one person's opinion, and I am often wrong.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#234

Post by AtlasBarfed »

for1nner wrote: post #50

The very first paragraph leads me to believe this is just a rewrite into svelte for the sake of it - I get it, Svelte is the new hotness on the FE-js-block, but this entire post stinks of "someone on the dev team advocated and fluffed enough figures to convince us. So now we're going to tell you why it was the right choice!" I say all this pretty confidently as someone currently maintaining a massive legacy vue2 app…

1) Vue 2: two years of support. Man.

2) we REALLY need a sort of "reference implementation" website that does the typical things a website needs to provide comparisons of approaches (hm, and performance benchmarks) to things like templating / html generation / data binding / etc.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#235

Post by latchkey »

nov21b wrote: post #178
KronisLV wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: used Vue 2 and 3 with JavaScript instead of TypeScript, so cannot comment on the latter. Personally, I rather enjoy the syntax in Vue 3 which makes using the Composition API more pleasant and makes it feel more like React, instead of something more boilerplate heavy: https://vuejs.org/api/sfc-script-setup.html Of course, Composition API itself is also available in Vue 2 (at least the newer versions) as a plugin…

In my experience React + TypeScript is a match made in heaven. You are basically writing pure TypeScript in TSX.

It certainly isn't bad and is my first choice. But, do you have a deep understanding of how React's rendering model works in all edge cases? Because that part really isn't heaven for me. Feels more like trying to navigate a minefield.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#236

Post by jewayne »

azangru wrote: post #218
sph wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent observation. This right here is what a senior frontend engineer, that has gone through a couple rewrites and hype cycles, looks like. The fact that they used a popularity contest as justification is laughable: if you have more than 3 years in the field you have experienced the pattern that the new kid on the block, often untested and with smaller mind share, jumps to the top of any "which framework would yo…

> No stable and productive framework will ever be able to compete in hype and good PR than alpha-quality software. Huh? Stable and productive tools will let developers ship features while hyped frameworks come and go. Whatever survives and is in good shape after multiple hype cycles is surely a winner.

I get it. Yes, stable and productive frameworks would win out in a fair fight, but it isn't a fair fight. The warts in the stable, productive framework are known, and there's already mid-level devs with battle scars that are clamoring for something better than the stable, productive framework.

The alpha-quality software is all new shininess, sometimes with explicit promises of solving the warts of [STABLE FRAMEWORK]. Plus everybody seems to think that new shininess looks better on a resume.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#237

Post by steve76 »

nlnn wrote: post #77

As a primarily backend person, it's always interesting to read about this sort of thing as an outsider with little appreciation for the nuances/challenges people face using these frameworks. I keep hoping things will settle a bit more so that I can someday pick one to learn in depth without worrying about it being replaced by the next hotness. Am I right in thinking the state of major players is roughly: React - incu…

No post body was provided.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#238

Post by hbrn »

beau_g wrote: post #18

Has anyone worked on a very large Svelte project yet? I work on a large React app in real life, but have been learning Svelte in my off time - there are some nice aspects like the out of the box state management, the syntax and structure is a bit easier to learn than React, but my intuition is a Svelte project would become unwieldy for a very complex app (React class components that are hundreds of lines long with do…

People seriously need to stop with this idea that small frameworks are only good for small projects.

The counterintuitive reality is that the best tool for big project is a small framework.

The bigger your project is, the more likely that framework will be getting in your way. The more likely that complexity of the project will be multiplied by complexity of the framework and result in an unmaintainable mess.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#239

Post by kitd »

for1nner wrote: post #50

The very first paragraph leads me to believe this is just a rewrite into svelte for the sake of it - I get it, Svelte is the new hotness on the FE-js-block, but this entire post stinks of "someone on the dev team advocated and fluffed enough figures to convince us. So now we're going to tell you why it was the right choice!" I say all this pretty confidently as someone currently maintaining a massive legacy vue2 app…

> The framework is so new

Just a note: Svelte is 6 years old, only 2 years younger than Vue. Both are definitely "old" on JS-framework timescales.

Re: Migrating from Vue 2 to Svelte

#240

Post by yCombLinks »

for1nner wrote: post #50

The very first paragraph leads me to believe this is just a rewrite into svelte for the sake of it - I get it, Svelte is the new hotness on the FE-js-block, but this entire post stinks of "someone on the dev team advocated and fluffed enough figures to convince us. So now we're going to tell you why it was the right choice!" I say all this pretty confidently as someone currently maintaining a massive legacy vue2 app…

I think Sate of JS is really useful, as long as you weight with User count, not just the percent of people that have liked the framework. Svelte is much too low in the actual usage for me personally to adopt.
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