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Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

martinfowler.com

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Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#231

Post by simongray »

judge2020 wrote: post #123
mberning wrote: post #30

If the idea of federated Twitter was so good and so important why did everyone seemingly only get interested in it right now? Charitably it would seem that this is just the topic du jour and "top of mind" for many people due to recent changes at Twitter. But if running your own Mastodon server is a good idea today, surely it was a good idea two weeks ago. Cynically, it seems that many of these people seem motivated b…

This is what happened with GitHub after the MS acquisition announcement as well. Right after the announcement there was a HN post about repo creation/imports being up 1000% or something, but now we can tell that not too much has changed (and GitLab was free hosted as well; you have to run your own mastodon instance). Until mastodon itself brings some killer feature that makes it de-facto better than Twitter, or Twitt…

The killer feature is the fact that it is actually a nice place to visit and this is partly by design. The stream of negativity that pervades Twitter is not present to the same degree.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#232

Post by simongray »

MBCook wrote: post #43
badwolf wrote: post #3

That way everyone can subscribe to your company's professional toots on masto

Why did they have to choose “toot”? I know different instances can re-label it but… ouch. I know people made fun of “tweet” but it was a logical and neutral word.

A "tweet" is no less logical and neutral than a "toot" (a Mastodon making a sound with its trunk). You're just used to the word "tweet".

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#233

Post by rakoo »

seydor wrote: post #53
anderspitman wrote: post #34

Yes. But even more important is software like Mastodon needs to get easier for people to selfhost, by about an order of magnitude. It shouldn't be any more difficult or less secure to run your own Mastodon instance than it is to run an app on your phone. In my vision of the future internet, when you upgrade your phone, your old phone gets plugged into a power socket and USB drive in the corner and becomes your new se…

should be wordpress-level easy at least. But last i checked it wasnt easy. Otherwise , mastodon hosters will become sneaky corporate spies, ad injectors and data resellers

To note: WordPress has an ActivityPub plugin, allowing you to have your blog and interact with the wider community.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#234

Post by c7b »

Ok, but how large does the organization need to be for that to make sense, or how do you determine that?

I was recently brainstorming some ideas with a friend who has a 1-person business where it would make sense for clients to be able to connect with each other. The thought of Mastodon briefly crossed my mind, but it seemed too ambitious.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#235

Post by seba_dos1 »

snapetom wrote: post #109
anderspitman wrote: post #34

Yes. But even more important is software like Mastodon needs to get easier for people to selfhost, by about an order of magnitude. It shouldn't be any more difficult or less secure to run your own Mastodon instance than it is to run an app on your phone. In my vision of the future internet, when you upgrade your phone, your old phone gets plugged into a power socket and USB drive in the corner and becomes your new se…

The self-hosting argument shows how out of touch fediverse developers are. Try explaining to the influencer celeb why they should self-host. In fact, just try explaining to them they need to pick a mastodon instance, any instance. "it's so easy." No it's not.

> Try explaining to the influencer celeb why they should self-host.

Why would you do that in the first place? They can self-host if they want.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#236

Post by alexb_ »

rakoo wrote: post #230
alexb_ wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost the ability to actually reach people. Lost the ability to actually talk with people in your communities. Lost the ability for fucking anybody who isn't a wizard to know how to even read something. I mean Jesus, bulletin boards are easier than this.

How did you lose anything ? The fediverse is one way to communicate. IRC, email, BBS, gopher are all ways plebiscited by fediverse enthusiasts to also communicate because there is no one tool that can do everything. If mastodon is not for you, use something else; no one blames you

>IRC, email, BBS, gopher

You need to take a step back, and look at what the average Joe is actually using. Don't assume that because your programmer friends use these obscure protocols for everyday communication that everyone is.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#237

Post by dredmorbius »

phailhaus wrote: post #225
dredmorbius wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pitching my explanation to the presumably technical audience of HN readers. This is a world in which people are familiar with webmail (email access through an HTTP gateway), and of both Web- and App-based interfaces to services such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, SnapChat, and Reddit. I'm reasonably comfortable in the thought that whether or not the Great Unwashed Masses think in terms of "HTTP Gateway"…

Why is Mastodon still hoping that the Great Unwashed Masses will come up with an explanation for the technical guts of their platform? It's been six years and articles still fall over themselves trying to explain what it is, and usually land on a variant of "it's just like Twitter, but more complicated." What I'm getting at is that Mastodon has a serious UX and communication problem, because they're not able to pitch…

Novel social networks fail to gain traction for all number of issues, of which UI/UX is only one small part. Founding cohort and compelling case is the most critical issue, and tipping points may occur precipitously. The instances of Slashdot, Digg, and Reddit, or of MySpace and Facebook come to mind.

I'm not saying that Mastodon doesn't have significant UI/UX issues. I've written on several of these at length on Mastodon. I've addressed at least one in this thread. But its multi-instance aspect really doesn't strike me as a weakness. Anything but.

You clearly feel strongly and differently. I doubt we'll progress on this point here and now.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#238

Post by phailhaus »

dredmorbius wrote: post #237
phailhaus wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Mastodon still hoping that the Great Unwashed Masses will come up with an explanation for the technical guts of their platform? It's been six years and articles still fall over themselves trying to explain what it is, and usually land on a variant of "it's just like Twitter, but more complicated." What I'm getting at is that Mastodon has a serious UX and communication problem, because they're not able to pitch…

Novel social networks fail to gain traction for all number of issues, of which UI/UX is only one small part. Founding cohort and compelling case is the most critical issue, and tipping points may occur precipitously. The instances of Slashdot, Digg, and Reddit, or of MySpace and Facebook come to mind. I'm not saying that Mastodon doesn't have significant UI/UX issues. I've written on several of these at length on Mas…

It's not just the multi-instance aspect, the problem is that Mastodon is trying to look like Twitter. Twitter will always win at the Twitter experience. There's no reason to switch away for normal people.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#239

Post by rakoo »

alexb_ wrote: post #236
rakoo wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you lose anything ? The fediverse is one way to communicate. IRC, email, BBS, gopher are all ways plebiscited by fediverse enthusiasts to also communicate because there is no one tool that can do everything. If mastodon is not for you, use something else; no one blames you

>IRC, email, BBS, gopher You need to take a step back, and look at what the average Joe is actually using. Don't assume that because your programmer friends use these obscure protocols for everyday communication that everyone is.

So average Joe can keep using whatever they're using, fine ! There is no obligation for them to migrate, and there is no reason underpaid overworked volunteers should make it easy for Joe to switch, especially if Joe is not open to change.

Re: Your Organization should run its own Mastodon server

#240

Post by dredmorbius »

phailhaus wrote: post #238
dredmorbius wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Novel social networks fail to gain traction for all number of issues, of which UI/UX is only one small part. Founding cohort and compelling case is the most critical issue, and tipping points may occur precipitously. The instances of Slashdot, Digg, and Reddit, or of MySpace and Facebook come to mind. I'm not saying that Mastodon doesn't have significant UI/UX issues. I've written on several of these at length on Mas…

It's not just the multi-instance aspect, the problem is that Mastodon is trying to look like Twitter. Twitter will always win at the Twitter experience. There's no reason to switch away for normal people.

In each of the instances I'd listed above, a reason emerged. Sometimes it was pull, but quite often (Usenet -> Web forums, Digg -> Reddit, MySpace -> Facebook), push played a major component: the extant option was increasingly less appealing to users (or providers, see my "Why Usenet Died" analysis for my take on some of the factors: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3c3xyu/why_use...>).

The compelling reasons presently are being provided by Twitter and its present owner, Elon Musk. Nothing's changed in Mastodon's offerings over the past several weeks, but much has changed regarding its attractiveness. Social networks are notoriously tippy, and what matters far more than specific featuresets of either the origin or destination systems. If major users transition, many others will follow. If and when that does occur, this can happen with stunning swiftness.

UI/UX are not at present a blocking feature, though as we've both noted, opportunities for improvement exist.

I've seen instances with > 3x increase in traffic as noted in this thread:

https://freeradical.zone/@tek/109309036456312761>

That's based on available evidence, not hypothetical arguments.

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