We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot • Hacker News Board

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#231

Post by jacooper » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

xchip wrote: post #113

LOL we look like taxi drivers fighting Uber. If Kasparov uses chess programs to be better at chess maybe we can use copilot to be better developers? Also, anyone, either a person or a machine, is welcome to learn from the code I wrote, actually that is how I learnt how to code, so why would I stop others from doing the same?.

No human perfectly reproduces the learning material they used. If that was true, one might as well just higher engineers from Twitter and make a new platform from the code they remember!

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#232

Post by undoware » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

celestialcheese wrote: post #133

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but this feels like it's more a law firm and individual looking to profit and make their mark in legal history rather than an aggrieved individual looking for justice. Programmer/Lawyer Plaintiff + upstart SF Based Law Firm + novel technology = a good shot at a case that'll last a long time, and fertile ground to establish yourself as experts in what looks to be a heavily litigated area o…

If it wasn't Butterick I wouldn't be interested.

But I write this to you in Hermes Maia

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#233

Post by jedberg » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

celestialcheese wrote: post #133

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but this feels like it's more a law firm and individual looking to profit and make their mark in legal history rather than an aggrieved individual looking for justice. Programmer/Lawyer Plaintiff + upstart SF Based Law Firm + novel technology = a good shot at a case that'll last a long time, and fertile ground to establish yourself as experts in what looks to be a heavily litigated area o…

As my lawyer friend told me, a class action lawsuit is a lawyer's startup. A lot of work for little pay with the chance of a huge payout.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#234

Post by EMIRELADERO » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #202

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #128

I think it's a great time to explain why this won't hit AI art such as Stable Diffusion, even if GitHub loses this case. The crux of the lawsuit's argument is that the AI unlawfully outputs copyrighted material . This is evident in many tests with many people here and on Twitter even getting verbatim comments out of it. AI art, in the other hand, is not capable of outputting the images from its training set, as it's…

Eh... I don't know. It sounds to me like you are saying because the code example outputs exact lines, it's a copyright violation; but the image AI's necessarily don't output exact copies of even portions of pre-existing images, that's not how they work. But I don't think copyright on visual images actually works like that, that it needs to be an exact copy to infringe. If I draw my own pictures of Mickey Mouse and Go…

I believe fair use is the way to go then. SD would definitely be so, in my opinion.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#235

Post by vesinisa » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

SurgeArrest wrote: post #196

I hope this case will fail and establish a good precedent for all future AI litigations and may be even prevent new ones. Your code is open source - irregardless of license, one might read it as a text book and then remember or even copy snippets and re-use this somewhere else unrelated to the original application. If you don't like this, don't make your code open source. This was happening and is happening independe…

Open source does not mean public domain. Open source specifically attaches limitations on how the code may be reused.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#236

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

celestialcheese wrote: post #133

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but this feels like it's more a law firm and individual looking to profit and make their mark in legal history rather than an aggrieved individual looking for justice. Programmer/Lawyer Plaintiff + upstart SF Based Law Firm + novel technology = a good shot at a case that'll last a long time, and fertile ground to establish yourself as experts in what looks to be a heavily litigated area o…

But who cares? Who else is willing to fund litigation on this important legal question? The real justice here is declarative and benefits everyone.

No matter who litigates and for what reasons it will be extremely valuable for good precedents to be set around the question of things like Copilot and DALL-E with respect to copyright and ownership. I'd rather have self interested lawyers dedicated to winning their case than self interested corporations fighting this out.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#237

Post by yamtaddle » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

awestroke wrote: post #57

If this leads anywhere I'll be pissed. I love CoPilot.

I expect I'd love it but I've been holding off until I find out whether MS lets devs on their core products use it.

If not, it's a pretty clear sign they consider it radioactive.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#238

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

onlycoffee wrote: post #226

iudqnolq wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the core principles of the American system of government is that we outsource enforcement to private parties. Instead of the public needing to fund enforcement with tax dollars private parties undertake risky litigation in exchange for the chance of a big payoff. There is a reasonable argument that's a horrible system. But it doesn't make sense to criticize the plaintiff looking for a profit - the entire syste…

It's the two words, "government enforcement", that bothers me. If your party is in control the words sound fine, otherwise, they sound ominous.

Are you against policing? Because that's government enforcement. Admittedly policing in the US is god awful, but I still think most people would rather have it than no police force at all.

Government enforcement of this kind of law is really no different. It wouldn't be the legislature doing it.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#239

Post by Phrodo_00 » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:49 PM UTC

fancyfredbot wrote: post #68

If a software developer learns how to code better by reading GPL software and then later uses the skills they developed to build closed source for profit software should they be sued?

Depends on how closely they reuse the code. Writing it verbatim or nearly? Yes.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#240

Post by sam345 » Thu, Nov 03, 2022, 9:49 PM UTC

celestialcheese wrote: post #133

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but this feels like it's more a law firm and individual looking to profit and make their mark in legal history rather than an aggrieved individual looking for justice. Programmer/Lawyer Plaintiff + upstart SF Based Law Firm + novel technology = a good shot at a case that'll last a long time, and fertile ground to establish yourself as experts in what looks to be a heavily litigated area o…

yes, of course that's what it is. plaintiffs if they win will get a few pennies, lawyers will get a lot.