Live data from Hacker News

I don’t believe in sprints

robinrendle.com

231–240 of 459 posts

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the “predictable deliveries” delivered by agile are based on behavior changes induced by the methodology. Specifically, focusing on stable point velocity per sprint focuses the team on creating sprint plans that safely deliver. This reduces the potential accomplishments of the team - they reduce throughput and delivery to a level that can be safely accomplished every 2 weeks. I have yet to find a st…

Linear.app is an example of a startup that "successfully launched using agile" and focused on "releasing features to production", while working with 2 weeks cycles (not "sprints"): https://linear.app/method

Right, this is exactly what GP is talking about. When you prioritize "doing predictable sprints" and a stable point velocity over releasing features to production, you reduce your team's throughput and productivity. When you prioritize shipping features to production over "predictable sprints", then things can be successful. You're proving GPs point, not contradicting it.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#232
post #201
post #6

This is nothing but a bad strawman from start to finish. Sprints are not made to help organize things, they're a tool to get more predictable deliveries. Their very short nature forces participants to construct tasks that are easier to estimate and therefore complete on time with a higher probability. This certainly adds overhead to an idealised scenario where people take the shortest reasonble route often enough and…

I’d go further, sprints are defensive for devs. Don’t bother me or tell me to do something new during a sprint. I’m doing the work I said I’d do, leave me alone until the sprint is overs.

As a senior dev I hate this. Of course I'm going to drop everything, if what I do stops making sense on an org level. Why would I do anything else.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#233
Disagree. In one of the companies I worked for. Management decided to adopt safe agile. We had a dedicated agile coach for the whole department. Each team went to learn the safe agile principles and framework. The main focus was how do three teams get more aligned when building a solution: edge software, cloud software, application layer. I can say after 3 months of sprints. The productivity improved, people were happier and now we know which feature is used by whom. The requirements were forced to become clear so it be translated into designs and then dev work with the definition of done. When properly applied with the right intentions it is transformative.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#234
post #18
post #11

Kanban is the best middle ground IMO. I agree sprints are a distraction. The planning and ceremonies alone sap time. Sprints are really just a form of pressure. In my experience the stories estimating is not accurate enough to set up a predictable sprint, and the inevitable deviation from the plan just creates additional work to audit and adjust, along with a sense of failure around what has often been a productive 2…

In a job a long time ago there was a brogrammer in the team, always estimating absurdly short times because he was so good and fast (he wasn't bad, but he was 2-3x slower than he himself estimated). So I had picked up the habit of estimating 5x longer on tasks, to balance him out. Also all the sprint planning and retrospective took basically 30% of our time.

How does something like this take 30% of your time? On my calendar it's two hours out of 80, or 2.5%. One hour per sprint for planning, one hour for retro, why would it be longer?

My team lead spends more time prepping tasks with the PM prior to sprint planning, but even then it's about 5%.

My last company, we had one-week sprints, but we didn't do official retros, so it was still 2.5%, one hour of planning for 40 hours of work.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#235
post #112
post #6

This is nothing but a bad strawman from start to finish. Sprints are not made to help organize things, they're a tool to get more predictable deliveries. Their very short nature forces participants to construct tasks that are easier to estimate and therefore complete on time with a higher probability. This certainly adds overhead to an idealised scenario where people take the shortest reasonble route often enough and…

And because you have sprints, you create lots and lots of small tasks, then focus on them, and then team members forget the "big picture" of how everything should fit together in the end (if they were ever aware of it). And when all of those small tasks are done, you notice that the sum of all those parts is not what you set out to build initially, and you need more time to shape it into something that resembles what…

You're supposed to be integrating everything and evaluating the big picture every sprint. You run into the mindless sub tasks if you don't look at the big picture, sprints or not.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strange law of human groups. Only caring about negative slip. That's why everybody inflates everything to shield themselves from the backlash.

That's a good reason why sprints work well so often. They limit the amount of inflation that is possible.

I think sprints (I've almost never used this in work and am not anti) are lacking something, limiting scope is one thing but do they ensure framing the problem / solution / design well too ?

The few times we've used sprints it was just issue dispatch and see you later, not really a guarantee of anything, but maybe I'm missing some information.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#237
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the alternative without sprints? What specifically about not using sprints would help the team if they lack good planners and people capable of seeing the big picture? Isn't such a team screwed regardless of how they allot work?

How bout, plan enough then just build the thing until we agree its usable and correct. What the hell is the point of the short time framed boundaries? I'm not a fucking horse I don't need cadence OR blinders.

Plan enough is sometimes 3 months of work. "Here's all the stuff we need to do to create a MVP." After 3 months, its not done and you are trying to do the last 90% on a task you thought was already 90% done. The hard things were put off till the end and now the optimistic "it should be done in 3 months" is getting up to directors that you don't have anything that runs at all.

The sprint forces a "this is what we're doing in these 2 weeks" with a deliverable at the end. If, at the end of the first sprint, you only got half the things done because of challenges, ok that's what it is. Next sprint you pick up only half as much work and you get that done.

Now, the PM can look at all the work that needs to be done and the rate of work that needs to be done and the amount of work and realizes that instead of the initial "yea, we can do this MVP in 3 months" that you're closer to having it out in 8 months if everything remains the same rate.

That is something actionable for project management to say "nope, can't have the MVP in 3 months with this scope" after only 4 weeks and the project can get canceled earlier.

Sprints try to make management realize overly optimistic estimates and timelines and either have things get adjusted (staff, scope, or time) or have it canceled sooner. Having a sprint based project canceled after 4 weeks rather than embarrassed and dragging out at 12 weeks is good for the organization to not spend resources on things that won't get done in the required timeframe.

The goal of the short framed boundaries is to force this decision sooner.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#238

I'm frankly puzzled how SCRUM sprints are even expected to work with a development + QA cycle. When a sprint starts, what QAs people are expected to do ? When the developers finish, and QAs start testing, what developers are expected to do ? It seems to me that this forced synchronization is just pointless and harmful. Where I work, we handle "sprints" just like checkpoints. This is in developing stage, this is in te…

> When a sprint starts, what QAs people are expected to do ?

Dedicated QA folk are redundant! The devs write automated tests for all the code they submit. It's 20 years since I spotted a dedicated QA person in the wild.

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#239
I reject most of the agile rituals, including daily check-ins and weekly or two week sprints.

If I personally have to check with someone, each day, to get good work from them, then my preference is to fire that person and hire someone else who I can trust. If I need to check in with a person every day, then I'm micro-managing this person, and I have to wonder why they need to be micro-managed.

This is different from me being available, every day, to help them, when they need some specific help. If they are being blocked by something, they should feel free to reach out to me and ask for my help. But a daily standup assumes that they won't ask for my help when they need it, and therefore I need to force a moment of conversation each day. Again, it is easier to fire such people and hire someone else who I can trust. I'm working in the USA where it is easy to fire people. If I was working in Europe, where it can be difficult to fire someone, then I would instead seek to get people traded away from my team, and I'd see if there were others in the organization that I could get to move to my team.

With senior level software developers I find it is often enough to meet with them on Monday and ask "What will you accomplish this week?" and then chat with them as needed during the week, and then on Friday check in with them and ask "What did you accomplish this week?" If they didn't accomplish what they thought they would during the week, then we can talk about why. With junior level software developers, I usually have to check in with them more often, which is fine. Usually, with each person, I figure out what is the ideal level of support that is needed. Every human being is a unique individual with unique needs, which is why the daily standup is a bad idea. It's important to figure out who is working for you and tailor your support to the needs of that individual.

Direct, honest communication cuts down on the need for rituals and ceremonies such as a daily standup meeting, or grouping work in two week batches.

Often, when I speak to managers of tech teams, they say the main point of two week sprints is to offer transparency to the leadership above them about what progress can be made during those two week sprints. But again, direct, honest communication with the top leadership typically does a better job of explaining what to expect, as well as to explain why something is delayed, if something is delayed.

To the extent that two week sprints serve a mostly political goal, I'd rather address the politics directly. I expect people below to reach out directly when they have something to say, and I do the same to the folks above me.

None of this precludes tracking how much work is being done every week, or every two weeks. If the work is being tracked in a tool such as Jira, it is still possible to add up the number of points that are being done each week. Nothing that I say here suggests that I'm against gathering metrics and trying to improve those metrics. But many of the rituals that are currently advocated for Agile development processes waste time on meetings that could more easily be worked out informally in a series of quick one-on-one conversations -- a style that is actually agile, rather than burdensome and officially Agile.

In general, meetings that waste time should be reduced to a minimum. Conversations that have specific purposes should be encouraged. Large group meetings should be reduced, and one on one meetings should be favored. This style has worked well me over the last 20 years that I've been doing this. As to the details, and nuances, of getting the most from one on one conversations, I develop this theme in my book "One on one meetings are underrated, group meetings waste time."

Re: I don’t believe in sprints

#240

Oh my god! No, no, no, the author does not understand the purpose of sprints. Assuming the originator of the concept of a sprint is Scrum (and it's a big assumption; normally I'd check, but I am lazy and somebody is clearly wrong on the internet), then the purposes of sprints are: - to set a regular cadence/rhythm to work, and to set up periodic checkpoints for inspection of the done product and adaptation of the wor…

You missed one of the most important: to provide slack time. Ideally, the team will only commit to less than they can accomplish, so there is built in slack time to do research, training, tech debt, and proof of concepts.
Post reply on HN