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The tyranny of the supertweeter

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231–240 of 259 posts

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#231

As someone from one of the many countries with a right/left/liberal split, I really don’t like that American politics conflates left and liberal together.

It's the result of the 2 party system. From 1860 to 1932 the liberals and the conservatives belonged to one political party, as is common elsewhere. After 1932, racial issues, and civil rights issues, brought the liberals together with the labor unions, and since then the "liberals" have been seen as belonging to the left.

However, during the 1800s and early 1900s, the word "conservative" continued to hold its monarchist overtones, and therefore it was rejected by all American politicians, regardless of their party. The first presidential candidate to describe himself as a "conservative" was Barry Goldwater in 1964.

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#232
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it just looks like a Nazi salute and it serves the same psychological purpose, but as long as we call it something else it's perfectly OK. I think it would be wiser to ask yourself why this is being deployed at political rallies, rather than complaining about how it is 'unfair' to draw comparisons just because you can identify superficial differences. It's so odd how every time there's an instance of a group o…

>Right, it just looks like a Nazi salute In the sense of what? Raising your right hand? That's basically the only part that overlaps. From wikipedia: >The salute is performed by extending the right arm from the shoulder into the air with a straightened hand. Usually, the person offering the salute would say "Heil Hitler!" (lit. 'Hail Hitler!', IPA: [ˌhaɪl ˈhɪtlɐ] (listen)),[3] "Heil, mein Führer!" ('Hail, my leader!'…

> Can you expand on this? What do you mean by "psychological purpose"? Is it just something mundane as "symbol of support in a political rally"?

It's collective, coordinated, and directs attention toward an individual on stage, as opposed to an individual expression of support like clapping or cheering - which many people might do simultaneously but isn't normally coordinated outside of a music performance. The 'as one' hand slamming you mentioned emphasizes the coordination here; it's novel, but basically an iteration on the original gesture.

> The complaint is that the twitter poster decided to sensationalize that rally by calling something it's not.

The tweet is somewhat hyperbolic and sensationalized, but while it's not exactly the same I really think it's more similar than different - it's a choreographed gesture of support for a political figure at a political rally involving a straight arm salute. As I said earlier, harping on the cosmetic differences sidesteps the very obvious question of 'does this look like a nazi rally to a casual observer?' And that matters, because political rallies aren't intellectually rigorous exercises in philosophical inquiry, they are theatrical performances designed to motivate political behavior through emotional arousal.

> That's all well and good if you want to demonize those groups, but what do you call people who actually want to systematically murder jews?

Groypers (this is an in-joke). We also have open neo-nazis who are explicitly aligned with the historical national socialist movement to the point of fetishizing it. The broader right wing authoritarianism that obtains in multiple countries at present can be generally described as fascism without any loss of precision or clarity. This doesn't have to refer to the-Italian-party-once-headed-by-Benito-Mussolini. Obsessing over typologies is sometimes a coping mechanism to avoid engaging with an issue, like having an argument about meteorology to avoid admitting you should have brought an umbrella.

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#233
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Right, it just looks like a Nazi salute In the sense of what? Raising your right hand? That's basically the only part that overlaps. From wikipedia: >The salute is performed by extending the right arm from the shoulder into the air with a straightened hand. Usually, the person offering the salute would say "Heil Hitler!" (lit. 'Hail Hitler!', IPA: [ˌhaɪl ˈhɪtlɐ] (listen)),[3] "Heil, mein Führer!" ('Hail, my leader!'…

> Can you expand on this? What do you mean by "psychological purpose"? Is it just something mundane as "symbol of support in a political rally"? It's collective, coordinated, and directs attention toward an individual on stage, as opposed to an individual expression of support like clapping or cheering - which many people might do simultaneously but isn't normally coordinated outside of a music performance. The 'as o…

>As I said earlier, harping on the cosmetic differences sidesteps the very obvious question of 'does this look like a nazi rally to a casual observer?'

But to an casual observer, what makes a rally a "nazi rally"? If you go around saying that a politician just held a "nazi rally", what pops in your head? You seem to think that the answer to both is something along the lines of "collective, coordinated, and directs attention toward an individual on stage", but I doubt most people believe that. This sort of behavior isn't limited to just political rallies for white supremacists, it's used by basically everyone. Calling right-wing or even white supremacist rallies as "nazi rallies" makes as much sense as calling left wing rallies as "Bolshevik rallies".

>The broader right wing authoritarianism that obtains in multiple countries at present can be generally described as fascism without any loss of precision or clarity

You don't see the problem here? You just equated "right wing authoritarianism" with "nazis" and "fascism". What does "right wing authoritarianism" mean, anyways? Is it just people who are more right wing and authoritarian than you by some arbitrary amount? If a politician is called a "nazi" or a "fascist", his policies could be anywhere between "more funding for the police and stricter immigration enforcement" and "round up minorities and send them to death camps".

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#234
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Right, it just looks like a Nazi salute In the sense of what? Raising your right hand? That's basically the only part that overlaps. From wikipedia: >The salute is performed by extending the right arm from the shoulder into the air with a straightened hand. Usually, the person offering the salute would say "Heil Hitler!" (lit. 'Hail Hitler!', IPA: [ˌhaɪl ˈhɪtlɐ] (listen)),[3] "Heil, mein Führer!" ('Hail, my leader!'…

> Can you expand on this? What do you mean by "psychological purpose"? Is it just something mundane as "symbol of support in a political rally"? It's collective, coordinated, and directs attention toward an individual on stage, as opposed to an individual expression of support like clapping or cheering - which many people might do simultaneously but isn't normally coordinated outside of a music performance. The 'as o…

Even hn has some supertweeters, fascinating.

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#235
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you expand on this? What do you mean by "psychological purpose"? Is it just something mundane as "symbol of support in a political rally"? It's collective, coordinated, and directs attention toward an individual on stage, as opposed to an individual expression of support like clapping or cheering - which many people might do simultaneously but isn't normally coordinated outside of a music performance. The 'as o…

>As I said earlier, harping on the cosmetic differences sidesteps the very obvious question of 'does this look like a nazi rally to a casual observer?' But to an casual observer, what makes a rally a "nazi rally"? If you go around saying that a politician just held a "nazi rally", what pops in your head? You seem to think that the answer to both is something along the lines of "collective, coordinated, and directs at…

> But to an casual observer, what makes a rally a "nazi rally"?

A combination of Nazi-style iconography and right wing/reactionary rhetoric. I've yet to see a 'left wing rally' in the US but I suppose that could take in center-left rallies by politicians like Bernie Sanders. And people do label such events as a bunch of commies.

I'm not sure what you have in mind with 'Bolshevik rallies'. I can't think of anything visually distinctive about historical examples, and when I think of Communist party events I think of very formal affairs in auditoriums as you might see from China or North Korea. I'm having trouble imagining an American equivalent.

> You don't see the problem here? You just equated "right wing authoritarianism" with "nazis" and "fascism". What does "right wing authoritarianism" mean, anyways?

If you're struggling with very common political theory terms used in a wholly conventional way, perhaps you should consult a dictionary instead of asking me to stand in for one.

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#236
post #7

The part about journalism is particularly troubling because Twitter is like crack for journalists and has thus played a big part in decreasing the credibility of the profession. The platform is a journalist's fantasy brought to life. The ability to exist as an individual and have an audience independently of their publication. Blue check-marks. As the article mentions, the capacity to find stories with little effort.…

> Mercator projection but for the opinions of people who don't touch grass

I wasn't sure what you meant by that. Now I'm really confused:

https://grasswiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Projection

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And good luck fitting nuance and context into ~~140~~ 280 characters !

compression and curation are the parents of persuasion

That's a very good point - I feel very uncomfortable on Twitter even today, but I can see how a "words first" education would make it easier to cope with.

It doesn't remove the issue though, since the space is so limited - IMHO Twitter is instead a much more fitting space for poets...

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#238
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an excellent Exra Klein podcast where he talks to game-philospher C. Thi Nguyen about Twitter's Like button's effect on journalists. [1] He says that as a journalist on twitter (which almost every journalist is) it's nearly impossible to get away from measuring your worth/impact by the number of likes you get. It's so buit into our minds, we can't not use Likes as a proxy for how engaging our story is. T…

I've argued that Likes are evil and should be banned. I've tried in some places to remove them from my life. Via ublock-origin I have them blocked from HN beacuse I feel the rush of elation everytime I see I've posted somethign that gets even a few up votes and I can feel it addicting me to wanting to seek out more of that. I've done the same on stackoverflow when I used to post their a lot. I hid other people's scor…

Fine, here's your upvo- oh, wait...

More seriously, I can see how these are useful in situations where there is just too much content to sort through (hacker news, reddit, slashdot... google ?).

Of course you can also have randomly displayed results, but then this goes against the goal of elevating the quality of the results, at which point you need to pick winners and losers somehow. (Obviously, the traditional way to do it : human editors, has its own issues...)

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#239
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, come on! The title of that article is, verbatim: "The racist backlash to The Little Mermaid and Lord of The Rings is exhausting and extremely predictable" Are you seriously arguing in good faith that you were fooled into thinking that this was a piece of objective journalism? You are providing a perfect example of my point, which I'll endure the downvotes to point out: rather than see an opnion article with which…

I'm arguing that I literally do not understand the distinction you're drawing. In my mind, "news", "reporting", and "journalism" encompass all articles written by news organizations about current events. I wasn't fooled into thinking this was a piece of objective journalism, but I did think it's a piece of non -objective journalism, albeit one where I ultimately agree with the author's thesis. But you seem to be sayi…

At least newspapers I think tend to have separate "magazines" with much more "fluffy" content, where you kind of expect it to be lower quality ?

This becomes a problem when they go and put it on the same website as "serious" journalism...

Re: The tyranny of the supertweeter

#240
post #181
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really all that different from the software industry.

I'd say it's pretty different. I don't have any social media brand to speak of and AFAIK neither do my co-workers.

The constant pull to start using GitHub and LinkedIn are quite annoying.
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