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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#231

Post by chasd00 »

bombcar wrote: post #7
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

The idea of a motor on each wheel independent has obviously been considered, but what is often ignored is the sprung vs unsprung weight. You could develop a pretty amazing off-road vehicle with independent electric motors in each wheel, but it would be a relatively bumpy ride.

Don’t those giant mining dump trucks have electric motors on each wheel? Although that’s probably for the low rpm torque advantage like diesel electric trains.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#232

Post by biztos »

smcl wrote: post #185
biztos wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drinking alone in a club (who does that?) Every single drinking person who has a club to go to and needs to do some thinking, for starters.

Pub I can see, but drowning your sorrows alone in a club is an odd one

There are many kinds of club, and there are many reasons to have a drink by yourself, most of which are not about anybody’s sorrows. Maybe you like the music, for example, but aren’t in the mood for company.

But if we want to assume Musk was drowning his sorrows, and that it’s an EDM dance club — this seems to be your implication, maybe it’s true — then I still don’t find it weird. Darkness, distraction, the desire to be among people but also alone, avoiding your entourage… plenty of good reasons.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#233

Post by darkwater »

clouddrover wrote: post #227
darkwater wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was looking at the trend over years, Tesla was high, then low, then it's trending up again. VW is trending down. Nissan was #1 by a massive margin and it's going down into oblivion almost

Eh, no. Tesla has trended down in market share over the five years since 2017.

Ooops, sorry, switched the greens with Hyundai/Kia

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#234

Post by lm28469 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #106
albertopv wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

Honda Civic Type Rs have a speaker system that makes more impressive engine sounds for the driver. Maybe Ferrari can go with that

I don't think you understand the mindset. It's not about mimicking something good, it's about having something good. Your 2$ Casio watch is more accurate than a Rolex, yet people still go for the Rolex

EVs bring performance in the same way Audible brings performance to "reading", ie it's a complete different experience, and some people prefer the old way.

No performance oriented person look at Tesla specs and drool, sure you smoke a fefe in a straight line, add a few turns and quick decel/accel and it's a whole other story. The m3 battery alone weight 1/3rd of a whole Ferrari

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#235

Post by lm28469 »

benj111 wrote: post #143
albertopv wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy a Ferrari you buy an experience, history etc, engine sound is good part of that experience. No way Ferrari will be banned for noise or pollution. On road a Ferrari noise is quite low when running low speed. Pollution is non existent for cars that drive few kms per year.

When everyone has EVs the sound of any IC is going to become increasingly noticeable. I can see a point where IC vehicles are banned from cities on noise grounds alone.

How many Ferraris do you see every day ?

For every Ferrari you have hundreds of 1970-80s diesel cars which pollute just as much in every city centers

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#236

Post by [deleted] »

texasbigdata wrote: post #177
izacus wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bizarre post - the "old" manufacturers have pretty much all released excellent EV cars across the market, many better than Tesla offerings in many ways. Why the wierd goalpost moving of having to do this 20 years ago?

I'm not really familiar with this market but I'll just quote one article from last week suggesting it's a bit more lopsided than that; things can change quickly obviously. "Tesla accounts for more than two-thirds of all-electric car registrations (almost 68%), which is a dominant position, but the non-Tesla electric vehicle sales are growing at a similar rate and potentially might outpace Tesla later this year." If y…

[deleted]

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#237

Post by jjulius »

texasbigdata wrote: post #177
izacus wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bizarre post - the "old" manufacturers have pretty much all released excellent EV cars across the market, many better than Tesla offerings in many ways. Why the wierd goalpost moving of having to do this 20 years ago?

I'm not really familiar with this market but I'll just quote one article from last week suggesting it's a bit more lopsided than that; things can change quickly obviously. "Tesla accounts for more than two-thirds of all-electric car registrations (almost 68%), which is a dominant position, but the non-Tesla electric vehicle sales are growing at a similar rate and potentially might outpace Tesla later this year." If y…

So, "it's a bit more lopsided than that", "things can change quickly obviously", and "non-Tesla electric vehicle sales are growing at a similar rate and potentially might outpace Tesla later this year", but Tesla is "the clear market winner"?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#238

Post by rsynnott »

codeulike wrote: post #187
izacus wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bizarre post - the "old" manufacturers have pretty much all released excellent EV cars across the market, many better than Tesla offerings in many ways. Why the wierd goalpost moving of having to do this 20 years ago?

the "old" manufacturers have pretty much all released excellent EV cars across the market They are just about getting there as of last year, after 15 years of saying they were going to. e.g. look back at VWs claims about how they were going to be an EV leader back in 2013, vs how long it took them to actually get the ID3/ID4 done. e.g. "Volkswagen Group will be the world leader in electric and hybrid cars by 2018, it…

> look back at VWs claims about how they were going to be an EV leader back in 2013, vs how long it took them to actually get the ID3/ID4 done.

VW was third in Europe by 2018 (or second, depending on how you view Renault-Nissan), and first by 2020, so... not _that_ huge of a miss, perhaps? The ID3/4 were their second generation; the eGolf and eUp, while far less ambitious, sold pretty well.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#239

Post by rkangel »

suction wrote: post #203
texasbigdata wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric, then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative, it's hard to take them seriously now that they're just responding to stay relevant / alive. If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had.…

Hydrogen was mainly Toyota, no German maker for instance made any serious commitments into that technology. I suppose you mean that Tesla was the dragging force in the EV sector and all others were reluctant until they saw Tesla become successful? If you look at the timeline of global auto makers putting EVs on the market, that claim is unsubstantiated, they would have been years later if that was true. I get it thou…

I think you mean Honda rather than Toyota for hydrogen and fuel cells.

Edit: or at least that was my perception. Doing some Googling it appears that they both have done things.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#240

Post by deepGem »

benj111 wrote: post #141
deepGem wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use 1 motor per wheel, at full torque you don't have double the power but the same power as one motor on the axle. This is the fundamental disadvantage of using one motor for each wheel, which is probably why Tesla engineers didn't pursue this route. In addition, the extra weight also adds up, no matter how tiny the motor is. Essentially you are making each wheel heavier, adding to suspension woes. The greates…

>If you use 1 motor per wheel, at full torque you don't have double the power but the same power as one motor on the axle. That's like saying if you double the power of an engine you get the same power at the wheels? The limiting factor is the grip. The more power you add the more you get out until that limit is reached. But anyway, I'm not sure the one motor per wheel is all about more power. You could use 2 smaller…

Thank you. I oversaw the aspect of what happens until the motors reach max power and all the other aspects you have mentioned.
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