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Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

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Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#231

Post by josu »

desindol wrote: post #223
clippablematt wrote: post #60

Ah yes, arrest developers of open source privacy code and blame them for North Korea money laundering rather than going after the people actually committing crimes. Sounds about right. Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right! Sorry that it makes the polices job harder, but our rights are more important. And didn’t we go through all this already in the 90s? Are we now gonna start arresting all cryptographers? This…

Privacy is a human right? citation needed.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

>Article 12

>No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#232

Post by salawat »

dannyw wrote: post #164
pxeger1 wrote: post #109

If I create a new type of leather wallet and then North Korea uses it for money laundering, can I be charged for "facilitation"? What about if I discovered electricity, which lead to money laundering? Where is the line here, and who defines it?

Or a more pressing question: if you create an encrypted messaging app, and people use it to do illegal stuff, can you be charged for facilitation? Let's cut to the chase: it's virtually guaranteed that Signal and Matrix are used for sharing child porn.

Always remember Alfred Anaya.

https://www.wired.com/2013/03/alfred-anaya/

Also remember, that if you wish to walk around and brand yourself as an Engineer, that comes with baggage.

https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics

I am not saying that governments automatically get the benefit of defining what "Good" is, but if you're going to make the claim they're wrong, you have a very hard, uphill battle ahead of you. If you believe in it, stick to it. Civil disobedience, comes bundled with accepting that the system will blow back against you.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#233

Post by [deleted] »

codyb wrote: post #228

If someone built something that said "Launder your money here" and it took in a bunch of money, and then disbursed it sans fees to hide where it came from... they'd say it was money laundering and arrest the person. Can anyone explain the difference here? Or why anyone is "shocked" that this is happening cause it's crypto? Just seems kinda childish to think crypto's somehow special and not just a tool for moving mone…

[deleted]

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#234

Post by antiverse »

clippablematt wrote: post #60

Ah yes, arrest developers of open source privacy code and blame them for North Korea money laundering rather than going after the people actually committing crimes. Sounds about right. Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right! Sorry that it makes the polices job harder, but our rights are more important. And didn’t we go through all this already in the 90s? Are we now gonna start arresting all cryptographers? This…

>Are we now gonna start arresting all cryptographers?

There are more cryptogrifters than there are cryptographers.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#235

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

cypress66 wrote: post #137
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think someone who believes that it will bring certain death could resist. It wouldn't surprise me if he destroyed his private keys to prevent himself from ever succumbing to the temptation. Those coins are of little value when using any of them would kick off a race to track you down and kidnap you with the intention of rubber-hosing the key out of you before going short on bitcoin. Having a secret in your head tha…

You are overestimating the odds of that happening. Vitalik Buterin is widely known, travels all the time to many countries, and although he might not be as rich as satoshi, still owns like a billion in crypto. Yet he hasn't been kidnapped.

World Economic Forum = plot armour?

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#236

Post by game-of-throws »

elefanten wrote: post #202
game-of-throws wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were true, it would be so easy for them to swing public opinion in their favor by saying so. Headline: Arrest of developer with suspected ties to North Korean money laundering Body: He has also previously contributed to Tornado Cash. But all we know is what they decided to tell us... he's a developer of privacy tech. If the facts change, I'll change my mind.

There have been a series of previous stories about North Korean state hackers using it to launder proceeds from known hacks. This didn’t happen with no lead up or context

Why are we not targeting the hackers instead of privacy advocates?

Should we arrest the Tor developers because North Koreans use Tor?

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#237

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

sph wrote: post #225
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need 15yr of foresight. I can see someone keeping their mouth shut for the first X years on the basis of "things are going well, my project is being adopted, I had better not F with it by increasing the number of coins in play lest there be unintended consequences" and then at some point deciding that things have gotten out of hand, the stakes are too high, pulling the hard drive off the shelf, drilling it…

I can't see anybody having that self-control is my point. I can't think of any person in history that has shown this level of restraint, especially about a very valuable and very controversial invention. Occam's razor says it's easier to assume he's dead than trying to imagine him as the most patient Buddhist monk, with deep economic and cryptographic knowledge, the world has ever seen. But we could go on with this d…

> I can't think of any person in history that has shown this level of restraint,

You wouldn't know about them, holy hell haha

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#238

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

lottin wrote: post #186
biglearner1day wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that would be the case given his history and method of working

He was a Windows programmer if I'm not mistaken.

Subtle.

But seriously, wouldn't you grab the most off the shelf stuff for your throwaway persona to use?

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#240

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

sph wrote: post #230
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude created a company that built a reusable rocket and you accuse him of selling vaporware.

We're talking about someone with inhuman self-control, and GP is talking about someone that just can't keep his mouth shut and loves being in the spotlight. If the genesis block did contain the image of a trollface (or any other 2008-era meme) instead of "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on Brink of Second Bailout for Banks", I could entertain this theory.

It's easy to retain self control when you already want for literally nothing.
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