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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#231

Post by hnlmorg »

tekknik wrote: post #211
hnlmorg wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you're implying here. CLI applications? Because they'd obviously behave the same. The issues I've noticed are around desktop applications. For example if I select some text in KWrite (KDE's "Notepad") by using SHIFT+CTRL+LEFT_ARROW then it will select the word. If I do the equivalent in Notes (macOS) it will select the whole line, not just the word (I tested this just now too). This platform specific be…

> SHIFT+CTRL+LEFT_ARROW then it will select the word. If I do the equivalent in Notes (macOS) it will select the whole line, not just the word (I tested this just now too). Use option instead of control here.

Ahh yes, that works. Thanks for the tip. That'll come very in handy.

Re: Linux 5.19

#232

Post by capableweb »

sbuk wrote: post #173
capableweb wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the "allegedly" is misplaced, I hope my overall point is clear anyway. Apple haven't "officially" helped Asahi, the change could have be made by a single contributor to the kernel for example, or more of a "why not" change without regarding Asahi specifically. We (unless you work at Apple) don't really know at this point.

Ask marcan_42 for how much support Apple have provided. When it has come up, they have been pretty open about it...

Marcan has been pretty clear in saying the same thing as I've said here. Apple doesn't have much use of such a feature themselves (apparently), but no communication was made of why the change happened. However small chance is that the change was made for other purposes, we simply don't know why it was made.

Re: Linux 5.19

#233

Post by manholio »

tekknik wrote: post #207
manholio wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to the terms and conditions Apple imposes on developers that wish to publish software on the App store.

How is it deliberately incompatible? How is VLC on the app store while claiming in its about page to be GPLv2 licensed? What specific language in the GPL or App Store T&C is incompatible?

You have to declare you own the intellectual rights of the underlying code, a thing GPL does not grant. You can of course dual license your own code but you cannot own code released by someone else under GPL, and you cannot publish it in the App Store. It would be an absolutely trivial change for Apple to make their store friendly towards opens source and there have been multiple protests about this.

I think projects like VLC request some sort of copyright waiver from contributors so they can relicense in the future, or simply ignoring the TOS, and exposing themselves to summary deletion.

Re: Linux 5.19

#234

Post by tekknik »

manholio wrote: post #233
tekknik wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it deliberately incompatible? How is VLC on the app store while claiming in its about page to be GPLv2 licensed? What specific language in the GPL or App Store T&C is incompatible?

You have to declare you own the intellectual rights of the underlying code, a thing GPL does not grant. You can of course dual license your own code but you cannot own code released by someone else under GPL, and you cannot publish it in the App Store. It would be an absolutely trivial change for Apple to make their store friendly towards opens source and there have been multiple protests about this. I think projects…

There, this explains it, VLC actually is dual licensed under MPLv2 as well according to it’s about page. Thanks for clearing that up

Re: Linux 5.19

#235

Post by tekknik »

hnlmorg wrote: post #215
tekknik wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> macOS keyboard shortcuts that differ in really confusing ways too. Like + Ctrl+C vs Cmd+C + Text area navigation on a Mac is totally different too. Home and End buttons behave differently. Ctrl+Arrow keys don't work. Shift+Arrow keys don't select. etc Cmd+C is actually more comfortable to me, as you use your thumb instead of pinky. My pinky is always fatigued after using a Win/Lin machine. Shift + Arrow keys do sel…

> Cmd+C is actually more comfortable to me, as you use your thumb instead of pinky. My pinky is always fatigued after using a Win/Lin machine. I'd say they're the same in terms of comfort but I do appreciate CMD+C when working in the terminal. > Shift + Arrow keys do select text, you must have something configured differently. They select text differently . I went into more details about the differences there in a di…

> Hence why my point wasn't about preference but rather just pointing out that there are differences one has to adapt to when switching from one platform to another (whichever direction that switch might be).

Think about this from the high level, it’s obvious yes? Why did you write an essay on “Windows, Linux, and Mac key shortcuts are different” and then “it’s clearly subjective” These are obvious statements.

Re: Linux 5.19

#236

Post by spectre3d »

bityard wrote: post #185
avar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used an iBook G3/G4 for years as a primary development laptop running Linux, and I think your recollection here is a bit off. The state of it was that: - There were numerous laptops with near-full Linux support, the Apple hardware wasn't categorically better when it came to that. - The power usage of x86 CPUs was atrocious at the time compared to PPC. Now history is repeating with Apple's M[12] line. Therefore peop…

> The Linux support for software suspend/hibernation was really flaky at the time, but it worked perfectly on Apple hardware, because all Linux had to do was to tell the hardware "do the suspend thing now" (IIRC by tweaking a file in /proc). That's interesting to read, because I ran Linux on a Macbook Pro for a few years around 2012 and the only thing on that machine that _never_ worked right was suspend and resume.

Pretty sure they were speaking of the PowerPC age, not Intel. The iBook and PowerBook G3 and G4, not the MacBook and MacBook Pro.

Re: Linux 5.19

#237

Post by hnlmorg »

tekknik wrote: post #235
hnlmorg wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cmd+C is actually more comfortable to me, as you use your thumb instead of pinky. My pinky is always fatigued after using a Win/Lin machine. I'd say they're the same in terms of comfort but I do appreciate CMD+C when working in the terminal. > Shift + Arrow keys do select text, you must have something configured differently. They select text differently . I went into more details about the differences there in a di…

> Hence why my point wasn't about preference but rather just pointing out that there are differences one has to adapt to when switching from one platform to another (whichever direction that switch might be). Think about this from the high level, it’s obvious yes? Why did you write an essay on “Windows, Linux, and Mac key shortcuts are different” and then “it’s clearly subjective” These are obvious statements.

> Why did you write an essay on “Windows, Linux, and Mac key shortcuts are different”

How is my original post an essay? It was basically just a bullet pointed list. Are we really that deep into the Twitter generation that anything more than a couple of sentences is considered an "essay"? Or are you just throwing that term about to be derogatory about my comments?

I don't really understand what your problem is here. The OP said mac's and IBMs differ, then someone else replied saying there's only one difference. That's where I replied with a bullet pointed list of additional items the commenter before me missed off.

The conversation was really that simple.

All this extra stuff about "essays", preferences, subjectiveness, etc are additional contexts you're adding and not something I was ever discussing. It doesn't matter what you, or anyone else, prefers in relation to my post. Literally the only point I was making was that they differ. Because the commenter before me seemed unaware of many of the differences. That's literally it.

Re: Linux 5.19

#238

Post by sbuk »

capableweb wrote: post #232
sbuk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask marcan_42 for how much support Apple have provided. When it has come up, they have been pretty open about it...

Marcan has been pretty clear in saying the same thing as I've said here. Apple doesn't have much use of such a feature themselves (apparently), but no communication was made of why the change happened. However small chance is that the change was made for other purposes, we simply don't know why it was made.

https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1554395184473190400

> "Okay, it's been over a year, and it's time to end the nonsense speculation."

> "I have heard from several Apple employees that:"

> "1. The boot method we use is for 3rd-party OSes, and Apple only use it to test that it works, because"

> "2. It is policy that it works."

> "Hacker News peanut gallery, you can drop the BS now. It's not an "assumption" that this stuff exists for 3rd-party OSes. It couldn't "be something internal Apple uses that could go away any minute". That is not how it works, it never was, and now I'm telling you it's official."

> "And this isn't even news because @XenoKovah (who invented and designed this entire Boot Policy 3rd party OS mechanism) already tweeted about this whole thing a long time ago, but apparently it needs to be restated."

So no, we do know why this was made and no, Marcan hasn't made the claim that you have.

Re: Linux 5.19

#239

Post by EricE »

DJeuxg wrote: post #25
nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

> How much other hardware can claim that? You mean aside from system76 or of any of the other Linux first hardware sellers? > The Asahi developers have also stated that Apple tends to keep hardware peripheral interfaces stable across generations The Asahi team has made an assumption about apples implementation of mobile chipsets that hasn't had a Linux competitor working to exploit it. Nothing is stopping apple from…

>Nothing is stopping apple from rug pulling the project next cycle.

Why would they do that? As others have pointed outed, Microsoft, Intel, Nvidia, etc. are indeed pulling the rug out on the other side (in the name of security). Locking the Mac down 100% would have zero benefit to Apple and just generate negativity.

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