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Scratch is a big deal

bryanbraun.com

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Re: Scratch is a big deal

#231

Post by mch82 »

jonplackett wrote: post #120
sdenton4 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried scratch? The blocks are written programming instructions, with some puzzle piece connectors which help avoid basic syntax errors. These instructions drive the sprites.

I’ve tried it on the iPad. Does it work the same there? I still think it’s more awesome to see just a written sentence that I typed out become something. Once you introduce any form of barrier between that and output, it’s hard for anyone to know what’s really happening behind the scenes to help you. There’s a beautiful purity to just simple text becoming something awesome.

Typing can certainly be more productive. However, it can also be error prone. You might checkout Blockly (the lower level language used to implement the current version of Scratch).

A lot of the stuff we type out in code is syntax and templates. Like this loop:

  for (let i = 0; 
       i ";
  }
Starting out, it’s hard to tell if the program syntax is wrong or if the program logic is wrong (just getting the snippet above to look close to right on HN is a pain :-)). Blockly makes that easier by mistake proofing the syntax so the programmer can focus on the logic, variable names, etc.

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#232

Post by isoprophlex »

nicoco wrote: post #225
jawns wrote: post #2

One of my earliest memories of writing code was playing Gorillas, a QBASIC game, on my school's PC in the early 90s. My friends and I would tweak the source code to make the gravity stronger or weaker, or make other interesting mods to the projectiles. For me, it was a perfect introduction, because there was an already written, already playable program, and I could dive into the code little by little and explore. Scr…

Modifying gorillas? You and your and friends were rockstar programmers already. I remember looking at the source code and thinking "this must be black magic". Thanks for bringing back the memories though. I looooved playing gorillas!

I remember actually crying from frustration because I couldn't figure out where the bananas were drawn. I desperately wanted to change it into something else.

Great preparation for a career in software haha

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#233

Post by ElemenoPicuares »

jecel wrote: post #202

It is great that Scratch can be used as an introduction to programming, but that is not why it was created. It was part of the MIT MediaLab "Computer Clubhouse"[1] project where it would be used to enable a remix culture of cute animations and even simple games. Scratch's implementer, John Maloney, had already helped create a programming environment for kids called EToys[2] using Squeak Smalltalk, just as in the firs…

I’m not really sure what you’re pushing back against here — are you taking issue with the terminology? Or are you saying that scratch should not be used as an intro to programming logic because it was originally designed to control visual components fairly superficially?

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#235

Post by vxNsr »

andrewstuart wrote: post #211
hmahncke wrote: post #191

A lot of discussion here about the limitations of Scratch as a programming language. But the magic of Scratch is the community. My daughter learned Scratch, and she joined multiple teams of 10-year olds making all kind of interactive stories and games. And virtually every interaction she had was positive, uplifting, and helped her construct her identity as a programmer. She now teaches Scratch for kids and programs i…

Whilst I totally agree with you, on the other hand, a child's first introduction to programming should be easy , intuitive and powerful. What could be worse than an introduction to programming that puts a certain number of children off because it's not those things? Clearly alot of kids manage to drive it enough to their satisfaction, but the failings of Scratch must leave many children behind. I know my son gave Scr…

I have trouble understanding how another language is more intuitive than scratch, indeed you don't provide any examples of more child friendly languages, just that it didn't work for your son.... which could just be because your son doesn't wanna program.

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#236

Post by vintermann »

whimsicalism wrote: post #172
bckr wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're an outlier for sure. Wii internals sounds very hard.

Definitely harder than Minecraft as it was in C and also a more adversarial environment bc Nintendo made it very challenging

Yeah. I have a lot of respect for all the Nintendo emulator makers and homebrew hackers, but for the platforms themselves, I can't help thinking the world would have been better if something else won out.

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#237

Post by bowsamic »

ElemenoPicuares wrote: post #233
jecel wrote: post #202

It is great that Scratch can be used as an introduction to programming, but that is not why it was created. It was part of the MIT MediaLab "Computer Clubhouse"[1] project where it would be used to enable a remix culture of cute animations and even simple games. Scratch's implementer, John Maloney, had already helped create a programming environment for kids called EToys[2] using Squeak Smalltalk, just as in the firs…

I’m not really sure what you’re pushing back against here — are you taking issue with the terminology? Or are you saying that scratch should not be used as an intro to programming logic because it was originally designed to control visual components fairly superficially?

He’s explaining the origins of why it’s bad at certain things: because it wasn’t originally designed as a general purpose tool. That’s the whole point of his comment, nothing else is implied

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#238

Post by antiterra »

jecel wrote: post #202

It is great that Scratch can be used as an introduction to programming, but that is not why it was created. It was part of the MIT MediaLab "Computer Clubhouse"[1] project where it would be used to enable a remix culture of cute animations and even simple games. Scratch's implementer, John Maloney, had already helped create a programming environment for kids called EToys[2] using Squeak Smalltalk, just as in the firs…

> that is not why it was created. It was part of the MIT MediaLab "Computer Clubhouse"[1] project

> so it is just a matter of using the tools for what they were created to do.

Ah yes, the vaunted historic MIT culture of 'using things for what they were created to do.'

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#239

Post by wiradikusuma »

I can't get my son to get excited with Scratch :(

Every time we open RPi, and I start opening Scratch, he will say, "Daddy, how about we do this" while taking over the mouse and opening a game.

When I'm not looking he'll open Chrome and play YouTube.

To be fair, once we're in Scratch, I don't even know what to do with it.

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#240

Post by Closi »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #221
avodonosov wrote: post #160

I've spent a fair amount of time with Scratch, enough to say I understand the language pretty well. The primary game I've created during this study: https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/575241838/fullscreen/ Here you can design a level and let a friend pass it - destroy all the bricks. In Scrath you hit language limitations all the time. The Scratch designers say it is so to be friendly to beginners, however the need to…

This Scratch thing reminds me of Authorware. Fun and powerful if you are still at a point in life where you are terrified of coding with text. But after you outgrow it you regret not using those brain cells to learn conventional programming. (At least, I did.) I'm not saying it's without value, but I am saying it can lead to disappointment.

One thing to remember is that Scratch can 'kickstart' the learning process.

For kids being able to quickly display graphics and move them around offers a big buzz and gratification very quickly. With a lot of other programming languages the gratification is greatly delayed which can make people quickly abandon them unless they already have some experience in programming.

Not sure I can name another programming language that you could give a 12 year old and they would be able to self-start and would not be likely to abandon learning it if they follow the standard 'get started' guide for the language. Unity is possibly the next closest, although it is much more complex to learn.

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