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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#231

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

whimsicalism wrote: post #196
dcolkitt wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China What? You think overseas manufacturers are paying $30 an hour? It wasn't high-skilled manufacturing that was outsourced. Welders and machinists still have near zero unemployment and make about as much as a software engineer. It was low skilled manufacturing jobs that were outsourced…

High-skilled manufacturing was absolutely outsourced outside of the US. > Those jobs never paid anywhere close to $30/hour even in the heyday of unionized American manufacturing. Auto factory jobs (which were outsourced) certainly paid that much and more in inflation adjusted dollars. From a book studying the auto industry describing average wages in Detroit, > At $11.62 an hour in 1982 wages, Detroit's autoworkers,…

The majority of the auto factory jobs that were (e.g. automotive assembly line work) are considered unskilled work; not even semi-skilled; never mind high-skill.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#232

Post by kqr »

pitaj wrote: post #95
ahelwer wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general framework for understanding police unions from a labor perspective is that the primary function of police is to safeguard private property rights, specifically the rights of the owning class. In that sense they are structurally opposed to all other sorts of labor unions, since labor unions threaten the maximal control of owners over the private property used (in conjunction with labor) to generate profit.…

Yeah, if you buy into the socialist class conflict theory. But it's pretty obvious that police only protect themselves and the state. They don't care about the private property of rich people any more than it hurts their reputation or the rich people have political connections.

> the rich people have political connections.

This is exactly what happens, though. You don't stay truly rich without a decent chunk of political influence. So, yeah, police protect the private property of those who support that idea most.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#233

Post by somehnguy »

ekianjo wrote: post #108
somehnguy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. What a strange comment imo. I can’t take the ‘everything will go up!’ stance seriously while higher ups are buying 10 houses and private jets. The wage gap is atrocious. By the way, Switzerland’s GDP is 748 billion vs the United States’ 20.94 trillion. Comparing them li…

> 1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? Why not? If you can double every few years eventually you will get to 100 dollars. And if you claim that everyone needs to make decent wages, who is to define what "decent" is supposed to be? People will always be asking for more, never less. > 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. Even if CEOs gave up th…

> Why not? If you can double every few years eventually you will get to 100 dollars.

Huh? That isn’t reasonable at all and I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith because of it.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#234

Post by alistairSH »

peyton wrote: post #207
resoluteteeth wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What employment contract? They’re at will Despite the colloquial use of the word "contract," there is generally always going to be an employment contract (agreement) in place. Similarly, people colloquially talk about having a "contract" for things like cellphones meaning a fixed term, but there is always an actual "contract" (agreement) with the terms of the service regardless of whether the plan has a fixed term…

Contract and agreement are not synonyms. Contracts require consideration.

Sure, but the larger point, that employees have employment contracts in at-will states, is still true.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#235

Post by verall »

koolba wrote: post #57
yardie wrote: post #23

> By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are authorizing the ALU to speak on your behalf. Yeah, they were great at listening before. Also, where are these unions where the people in it aren't the people it represents. Recently, a school board election ad, "we have to stop the teachers union and start listening to teachers." Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers?

> Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers? Professional bureaucrats. Teachers unions in public schools are the worst. They hold our childrens’ futures hostage and get paid out by politicians buying votes, who pass the bill to the next generation.

States where teacher's unions are allowed to collectively bargain have better teacher pay, less teacher shortages, and better average outcomes. To me this sounds like a lot of privilege from someone that doesn't understand how bad schools can get in areas with very little funding or oversight.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#236

Post by TulliusCicero »

ekianjo wrote: post #49
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

> he only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If everyone gets paid tomorrow 100 USD/hour, everything around you will start costing 10x more. Look at Switzerland.

The social effects of this seem to be really good, if you look at quality of life in Switzerland.

If wages at the bottom go up and that causes inflation, the overall impact of that is wage compression, or in other words, reduced income inequality. Which is what we want.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#237

Post by TulliusCicero »

Jiejeing wrote: post #67
ekianjo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If everyone gets paid tomorrow 100 USD/hour, everything around you will start costing 10x more. Look at Switzerland.

Prices in Switzerland are somewhat similar to or a bit higher (and certainly not 10 times) than the US, except for meat.

This not accurate. Eating out, for example, is very expensive there, even compared to major cities in the US.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#238

Post by alistairSH »

hedora wrote: post #226
lotsofpulp wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Starbucks poached our babysitter. $25/hour is the market rate for babysitters around here Seems like $25/hour was the market rate.

I get the impression the dollar amount didn't change. Instead, the existence of the market did. (None of the other parents we know have been able to find babysitters either.) Presumably, it'll even out after the labor shortages subside.

Are we talking about nannies or a sitter for a random single night? Are there no teenagers in the neighborhood who want an “easy” 4 hours work? That’s what we did with my son (late 90s). Same as my parents did with me and my sister (early 80s).

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#239

Post by TulliusCicero »

thepasswordis wrote: post #159
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions can be corrupted or do mistakes, and sometimes unions are not powerful enough in the face of global market shifts. That doesn't mean unions are bad or useless. It would be like saying that since democratic governments can be corrupted, we should do without democracy.

Hold on just to be clear: do you think the problem in Detroit is that the unions weren't powerful enough ?

Try listed three potential issues with unions, why did you zoom in on just that one?
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