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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

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Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#231

Post by leoedin »

klpons wrote: post #184
nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

There is an obvious alternative: The West must stop doubling down every 2 months and seek a diplomatic solution. The U.S is relatively fine. Europe is being screwed over by the virtue-signaling policies. Europe canceled cheap long term Gazprom contracts and is now buying expensive gas (including from Russia!) on the spot market. Europe buys expensive liquid gas form the U.S. Meanwhile, China is laughing and buys chea…

Living in the UK, US policy on Ukraine barely registers. It's surprised me how strong most people's feelings are that we need to do everything we can to cut out Russia. This isn't an economic question any more, it's emotional. War in Europe is suddenly a reality, and it doesn't feel very far away, even in London.

The UK may have left the EU, but we still have millions of Eastern Europeans living here.

Whether this sentiment stays when winter comes and energy prices really start to bite is another question - but right now our attitude towards Russia is driven by our own emotions - nothing to do with American virtue signalling.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#232

Post by yrgulation »

theplumber wrote: post #213
yrgulation wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes about trump. I distinctly remember people rightfully laughing at him for his “clean coal” statements. Guess what country in europe relies heavily on “clean coal”?

Poland? There is no clean coal and one bad thing doesn't make other right

Nice try.

“Germany represented 46 % of the total brown coal consumption of the EU in 2021, followed by Poland (19 %), Czechia (11 %), Bulgaria (10 %),Romania (6 %) and Greece (5 %).”

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Meanwhile poland is being fined for extracting said coal.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#233

Post by MrRiddle »

nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

No post body was provided.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#234

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

wewxjfq wrote: post #209
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching off their own nuclear power plants, replacing them with gas and coal, when gas is lacking and creating shortage of electricity, thus propelling prices up. Thing is that energy is traded in EEX ( https://www.eex.com/en/ ) so everyone who is trading there is feeling Germany's stupid decisions. For example Sweden is not in EEX and has no problem with high energy prices.

Every year Germany has been a net electricity exporter. If other countries buy German electricity, it means they can't produce it cheaper. You know who is paying by far the highest spot prices in Europe causing prices to go up? France.

Exporter with massive asterisk. They are exporting electricity during summer, when it is cheap and nobody needs it and importing it during winter when it is expensive.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#235

Post by gjsman-1000 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #224
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not just Ukraine - what about Sri Lanka which is collapsing by the minute? I do care about the people, but if I am completely honest, I could care less about the government. If the current government can fend off Russia, great, but maybe (I don't know for sure) it would be better for the people for some sort of diplomatic solution to be created (perhaps surrender a part of Ukraine but allow anyone interested…

Sri Lanka hasn't spent the last decade invading multiple nations. Ukraine's not facing internal strife, they're facing an external threat.

But are the people of Sri Lanka not going to suffer immensely in a different way and thus also need our aid, assistance, and attention?

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#236

Post by oxff »

bamboozled wrote: post #137
oxff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Letting Russia take Ukraine would have enormous security implications long term Yes, I am not disputing that. I stated that the actions of EU (self-sanctions) have not, and will not affect whether or no Russia takes Ukraine though, this was the entire point of my post. It is part of what makes them so absurd. An action that would affect would be to deploy there via strategic military action, but which our Moral Lea…

> I stated that the actions of EU (self-sanctions) have not, and will not affect whether or no Russia takes Ukraine though, this was the entire point of my post. It is part of what makes them so absurd. What credentials, intel do you have to back this up? I've heard a lot of evidence to support the contrary. The sanctions are working, Russia is just telling us they're not and that's what the rooble is so highly value…

I am not credentialed, I am a Bad Person (I have my own Thoughts); as for "intel", I have none either.

I find these given cause-and-effect chains in defense of the sanctions and other actions largely to be magical thinking and hysterical (they'd be less so if they were actually backed by the proof-of-work of deploying to protect Ukraine).

Like, I don't care about the Ruble in itself. I was told that it would be flattened in two weeks. Well it wasn't, so we failed there. Okay, so next goal post is to pretend Ruble going up and down has helped Ukraine's strategic or operational capabilities or hurt Russia's, materially altered the course of the war. Well that's magical thinking, they were supposed to run out of missiles in two weeks somewhere around March, and it was like day or two ago they made their largest missile strike (which have been more or less continuous).

A NATO deployment would alter the outcome of the war, and that single action is not coming.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#237

Post by ceejayoz »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #235
ceejayoz wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sri Lanka hasn't spent the last decade invading multiple nations. Ukraine's not facing internal strife, they're facing an external threat.

But are the people of Sri Lanka not going to suffer immensely in a different way and thus also need our aid, assistance, and attention?

Yes, and when the famine (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/we-are-going-die-...) hits in a few months, we should - and probably will - assist. We're just not likely to intervene with the protests going on right now.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#238

Post by nathias »

frostburg wrote: post #109
nathias wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, like US and China, we can't stop them and it doesn't help to kill our economy for a strictly symbolic action

Russia is failing, with its military reputation, one of its few assets, in tatters.

its weird how people who have nothing always have to take care of the bill

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#239

Post by alangibson »

mythrwy wrote: post #198
excieve wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Ukrainian, I sincerely thank you for writing this. It is often disheartening to see how many people of HN don't realise what is happening (and, frankly, has been happening for 8 years) and then read cold opinions devoid of empathy. What is the compromise when the other side's goal is extermination?

I don't see the goal being extermination at all. If that were the case the tactics used would be much different. Control, integration, subjugation, colonization, there are a lot of other words that are more fitting without the "genocide" hyperbole.

Check out Russian state TV. They've been very explicit in saying they don't think 'Ukraine', Ukranians or even Ukranian language actually exists.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#240

Post by theplumber »

credit_guy wrote: post #73
ibeckermayer wrote: post #42

Related content "Trump: Germany 'Totally Controlled By Russia'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LLZBVTid4I German bureaucrats laugh at Trump after he says the country could become totally dependent on Russian energy: https://twitter.com/marcusgilmer/status/1044604107997237249

I generally despise Trump, but here he looks like a visionary and the German diplomats look like morons (in hindsight, at least).

But "Russia has been treated so unfairy" and "European Union is the biggest foe of the United States" not Russia or China...So let's listen to what that clown(Trump) says next, right? Germany's dependency on Russia's energy has been well known for decades.
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