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Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

science.org

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Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#231

Post by sol_invictus »

mulmen wrote: post #161

This article is mostly cliche popsci trash that isn’t worth reading. Good for a game of logical fallacy bingo. The only interesting development seems to be the methodology but that only gets a passing mention. The rest is basically fearmongering. > In humans, for example, gut bacteria influence how the immune system responds to pathogens and allergens, or interact with the brain, affecting mood. Ok. But what does tha…

Lifespan is a poor metric for quality of life. You can be alive whilst being plagued by multiple illness. Healthspan is what is important (how long you can live without suffering from a major ailment) and that is where gut microbiome plays an important role.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#232

Post by mulmen »

sol_invictus wrote: post #231
mulmen wrote: post #161

This article is mostly cliche popsci trash that isn’t worth reading. Good for a game of logical fallacy bingo. The only interesting development seems to be the methodology but that only gets a passing mention. The rest is basically fearmongering. > In humans, for example, gut bacteria influence how the immune system responds to pathogens and allergens, or interact with the brain, affecting mood. Ok. But what does tha…

Lifespan is a poor metric for quality of life. You can be alive whilst being plagued by multiple illness. Healthspan is what is important (how long you can live without suffering from a major ailment) and that is where gut microbiome plays an important role.

No shit. That’s the point. I can draw a correlation between basically anything. That doesn’t make it interesting.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#235

Post by potamic »

mulmen wrote: post #161

This article is mostly cliche popsci trash that isn’t worth reading. Good for a game of logical fallacy bingo. The only interesting development seems to be the methodology but that only gets a passing mention. The rest is basically fearmongering. > In humans, for example, gut bacteria influence how the immune system responds to pathogens and allergens, or interact with the brain, affecting mood. Ok. But what does tha…

It is scary because the gut microbiome in humans is evolving much faster in recent times. This is coming from a study that maps evolution of gut microbiome in primates to the primate evolutionary tree. They found that families of gut bacteria can be passed down over millions of years in a species. The gut microbiome has always coevolved with the species. As the species diverges, so does the microbiome adapting to the changes in the host. Except in modern humans, where it is evolving at a much faster rate since industrialization. It's a very interesting observation in my opinion and asks important questions about how the modern lifestyle is affecting the biome. For instance, what happens if a pregnant mother takes antibiotics? Will a family of bacteria get killed off in that mother's evolutionary branch?

The article is most certainly popsci and written for laymen, but I don't think it is trash at all. Not sure why you think so. It highlights some very interesting discoveries and offers you a window to dive in and learn more things on the subject if you are interested.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#236

Post by Ericson2314 »

ssnistfajen wrote: post #226
ls15 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lactase persistence is regulated by genetic mutations, not gut microbes. > Koreans eat lots of fermented vegetables, yet why are 70%-100% of Koreans estimated to be lactose intolerant? On the other hand, there is Mongolia: > But a closer look at cultural practices around the world has challenged that picture. In modern Mongolia, for example, traditional herders get more than a third of their calories from dairy pro…

So how exactly does the diet of Mongolians prove lactase persistence is not fundamentally genetic? Lactose intolerance isn't something like celiacs where a dash of the substance causes adverse reactions. Most of Asia still sell non-lactose-free dairy in supermarkets. Look up any Youtube video of Korean street foods and you will see dairy products such as processed cheese, yogurt, mil, and ice cream are ubiquitous in…

Yeah and none of the foods on the list was raw unfermented milk.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#237

Post by wheelerof4te »

moistly wrote: post #189
wheelerof4te wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of both iron and vitamin B in plant-based food. You really believe we hunted big game so much? With what? Sticks and stones? How did we catch them with our weak legs? How the hell did we skin them or eat their raw flesh? Cooking wasn't a thing for a long time. And why don't we eat the animal meat raw? Don't you love it when you see the dead, rotting carcas all open and blody? I sure don't. And neither would yo…

> You really believe we hunted big game so much? I mean there’s proof we hunted dinosaurs to extinction, so yah, we hunted down all the big game. Indians hunted bison, most everyone hunted elk and deer, humanity grew up on meat. Edit: Eskimo hunting freakin’ whales, every Nat Geo special on tribal peoples show them hunting for daily meat, arrowheads and napping knives and spears found in ancient caves…

"I mean there’s proof we hunted dinosaurs to extinction, so yah, we hunted down all the big game."

Really? How did we do that when all dinosaurs (except the birds) died off ~65 millions of years before our species even began?

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#238

Post by mulmen »

potamic wrote: post #235
mulmen wrote: post #161

This article is mostly cliche popsci trash that isn’t worth reading. Good for a game of logical fallacy bingo. The only interesting development seems to be the methodology but that only gets a passing mention. The rest is basically fearmongering. > In humans, for example, gut bacteria influence how the immune system responds to pathogens and allergens, or interact with the brain, affecting mood. Ok. But what does tha…

It is scary because the gut microbiome in humans is evolving much faster in recent times. This is coming from a study that maps evolution of gut microbiome in primates to the primate evolutionary tree. They found that families of gut bacteria can be passed down over millions of years in a species. The gut microbiome has always coevolved with the species. As the species diverges, so does the microbiome adapting to the…

Consider my comment as feedback from an editor to the author. I don’t think this is fit to print.

I agree with you. This could be an interesting topic. But the article provides no substantive information. Anything that is learned will be in spite of this article, not because of it.

What you describe is the potential that I maintain this article fails to live up to.

> It's a very interesting observation in my opinion and asks important questions about how the modern lifestyle is affecting the biome. For instance, what happens if a pregnant mother takes antibiotics? Will a family of bacteria get killed off in that mother's evolutionary branch?

That’s a great question! But it isn’t in the article.

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#239

Post by [deleted] »

mulmen wrote: post #238
potamic wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is scary because the gut microbiome in humans is evolving much faster in recent times. This is coming from a study that maps evolution of gut microbiome in primates to the primate evolutionary tree. They found that families of gut bacteria can be passed down over millions of years in a species. The gut microbiome has always coevolved with the species. As the species diverges, so does the microbiome adapting to the…

Consider my comment as feedback from an editor to the author. I don’t think this is fit to print. I agree with you. This could be an interesting topic. But the article provides no substantive information. Anything that is learned will be in spite of this article, not because of it. What you describe is the potential that I maintain this article fails to live up to. > It's a very interesting observation in my opinion…

[deleted]

Re: Modern city dwellers have lost about half their gut microbes

#240

Post by [deleted] »

ssnistfajen wrote: post #226
ls15 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lactase persistence is regulated by genetic mutations, not gut microbes. > Koreans eat lots of fermented vegetables, yet why are 70%-100% of Koreans estimated to be lactose intolerant? On the other hand, there is Mongolia: > But a closer look at cultural practices around the world has challenged that picture. In modern Mongolia, for example, traditional herders get more than a third of their calories from dairy pro…

So how exactly does the diet of Mongolians prove lactase persistence is not fundamentally genetic? Lactose intolerance isn't something like celiacs where a dash of the substance causes adverse reactions. Most of Asia still sell non-lactose-free dairy in supermarkets. Look up any Youtube video of Korean street foods and you will see dairy products such as processed cheese, yogurt, mil, and ice cream are ubiquitous in…

[deleted]
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