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The SQLite Code of Ethics

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231–240 of 408 posts

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#232
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my commentary on this nonsense is at https://gitlab.com/kragen/bubbleos/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDU... . > Could J. K. Rowling require Harry Potter readers to follow a code of conduct? Could Werner Heisenberg demand that you subscribe to a code of conduct if you want to do quantum physics? ... > Codes of conduct typically make laudable promises such as “We pledge to respect all people,” in an attempt to convince…

> Could J. K. Rowling require Harry Potter readers to follow a code of conduct? Nobody attempts to apply codes of conduct to users of software - that's the domain of the license agreement. They only apply to communities. Virtually every online community around harry potter has some set of rules for participating in that community. e.g. https://stories.jkrowling.com/terms-of-use/ > Could Werner Heisenberg demand that…

I'm glad you started to pick up on the subtle point about Heisenberg, but it sounds like you stopped halfway. What would be the consequences of allowing Heisenberg to dictate codes of conduct for quantum physicists today, or Wagner to dictate codes of conduct for performers of his operas?

I addressed the point about when codes of conduct apply to users of software in the document linked.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only works if you don't label half the population as intolerant.

It's not about labels. Speech that singles other people or groups out for different treatment or is otherwise racist, sexist, etc is intolerant. In a just society, we simply ask that one makes one's point without throwing specific groups under the proverbial bus.

> Speech that singles other people or groups out for different treatment or is otherwise racist, sexist, etc is intolerant.

I think most people can get on board with that. The trouble comes when people start berating others for using words/phrases like blacklist, sanity check, backlog grooming, master, and spaz - just to name a few. 99.9% of people who use these words do not possess the mens rea of bigotry or intolerance.

E.g.: Right now, someone who read your comment is probably enraged on behalf of the people who have been hit by buses. Most of us know you mean no harm by it.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Contributor Covenant is the gold standard for a reason: it is a response to the bigotry and harassment problems that were endemic to the open source communities. Alone it doesn't achieve much, but combined with a good faith enforcement board it helps keep a community a pleasant, joyful place to contribute to, for everyone. And that will increase software quality and attract quality people, aside from being, you k…

With good modding, no code is needed. And with bad modding, the best code imaginable can achieve nothing. It is all down to the quality of the modding.

> With good modding, no code is needed

This is nonsensicle and shows a lack of understanding. A code of conduct is just a guidebook for users to understand how your moderators will act, what to expect in a community.

How does "good modding" remove the need for that?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you skipped over the point and went directly to the ad-hominem. Do you learn much with this approach?

I did learn a bunch, I went on a bit of a dive refreshing what I knew about the MPI and Heisenberg. Interesting stuff. But back to your point. Your point was made using two examples. Bad examples, in my opinion, since the first doesn't apply (consumption of work vs collaboration) and the second one also doesn't apply (building on others work vs collaboration). Your further point about watching what people do vs what…

You seem to have me confused with someone else.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#236
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a set of beliefs The elephant in the room in many current attempts to encourage "diversity" is that a genuinely diverse range of opinions and/or beliefs ends up being not welcome at all.

Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

Ah shit here we go again.

Popper's Paradox of Tolerance is widely misunderstood to be a licence to be intolerant yourself. For the last time : it is not.

Popper was talking about a very specific case, where the intolerant exploit the tolerance of a society to physically take over that society and enforce their views.

Until and unless you have evidence of that plausibly happening, there is no Paradox of Tolerance. You can perfectly tolerate people who hate women, who hate men, who hate gays, who hate the rich, who hate the poor, who hate any and every religion, ideology, way of life, identity, worldview or personality type. You can tolerate each and every single one of them, you can tolerate infinite number of them, as long they don't try to make reality conform to what they preach.

It's well known in software that a data structure can have infinite readers, but the presence of even a single writer either necessitates that the data structure is completely private to the writer, or an explicit and consistent writing policy needs to be devised to coordinate the writer with the readers and possibly other writers. Popper's Paradox of Tolerance is a restatement of this basic observation in the context of human societies. You can have infinite tolerance and diversity, as long as not a single ideology or group "writes" their conflicting views to society. If you have a group that does that, then you must choose whether you will cede all control of society to that group, or to set a strong writing policy that is much less permissive than infinite tolerance.

Stop using an argument for tolerance as an excuse for intolerance.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#238
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a set of beliefs The elephant in the room in many current attempts to encourage "diversity" is that a genuinely diverse range of opinions and/or beliefs ends up being not welcome at all.

Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

Karl Popper was talking about Nazis and Communists organizing street brawls and putsches, not people insulting each other on Twitter:

> I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.

As long as nobody is bringing pistols to tech conferences or starting fistfights in the hallways, Popper would not support excluding attendees for having intolerant ideas. Perhaps if contributors to your open-source repository are doxing and SWATting each other, putting lives at risk, then Popper would exclude them. But as long as they're just making offensive comments, Popper would not "claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force." (It might still be better to decline their patches so as to avoid being associated with them.)

I wouldn't go even as far as Popper, because his argument eats itself; as demonstrated in this thread, when people start applying his ideas, Popperism itself becomes an intolerant idea that, according to Popperism, we should suppress by violence. Moreover, any political position that advocates that the government take an action is advocating that some policy be imposed on the unwilling parts of the population by violence.

Much more sustainable is to suppress the violent actors and protect those who are merely calling for violence, while remonstrating with them to change their minds.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#240

Before I got to talk with Richard, I found many things online about his Christian values and public domain license and how odd it was. And I thought this was THE fascinating thing about Richard that led to the database and other things. But then I talked to him. He's a great engineer but a regular guy running a business around a thing he built. He gets to be a bit whimsical because he can. He can use his own source c…

Can't edit my post but thank you to everyone saying they listen to and support the podcast.

Hearing positive feedback keeps me going and I'm always happy to take guest or topic suggestions as well.

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