Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#231

Post by layer8 » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #104

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. Its a commoditized market where they only make money when you buy their supplies so naturally they will engineer the product to work well with their supplies only. This might be an opportunity for open source printer componen…

No, you're right. There's nothing particularly magical about a printer. The PCL and Postscript specs have been in place for decades. Writing a driver to take that output and drive a print head to put it to paper should be pretty straightforward. (Needing to mark each print at the behest of the Secret Service to prevent counterfeiting is a question mark to me. Is that spec public?) It SEEMS like you could make printer…

Reliable physical paper handling, e.g. supporting different paper weights, sizes. and thickness, duplex printing, avoiding paper jams, is nontrivial.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#232

Post by grogenaut » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

carpenecopinum wrote: post #13

I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. Decades of innovation that have been invested, not to make a better product, but mostly on how to extract more and more money from their victims, I mean "customers". I would like to own a printer again, but for printing something like once a month, I just can't financially justify spendin…

If you're using it for documents just get a laser printer. I have a brother laser sitting next to me. I bought a replacement toner when I got it 7 years ago. I'm 10% into the first toner cartridge. It doesn't really go bad either and the toner is reasonable. It also prints super fast and reliably.

For real world prints I just go to walgreens or now more likely to use a digital frame. My mom with memory issues LOVES her digital frame even more than photo albums as she can sit there watching it rotate through her memories. She has boxes of albums in her room but forgets they're there.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#233

Post by delecti » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

mdavis6890 wrote: post #229

An alternative viewpoint is that this business model is good for consumers, or a least differently neutral. If printer companies try to make their money on the printer sale, then it's very difficult for folks who only need to print a little now and again, and they might not be able to afford a very good printer. By moving to a consumption-based revenue model, now they can let everyone have a super-cheap printer (they…

It doesn't really work out that way though. People who don't need to print very often end up churning through absolutely garbage printers that are more trouble than they're worth and don't last very long before the ink dries up and leaves it a pile of junk. People who print a ton can instead invest a tiny bit more in a printer with notably cheaper per-print costs. It's really better viewed as almost an instance of the Sam Vimes "Boots" theory.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#234

Post by exyi » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #103

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. Its a commoditized market where they only make money when you buy their supplies so naturally they will engineer the product to work well with their supplies only. This might be an opportunity for open source printer componen…

> There's no room left for innovation or competitive advantage. What? A hackable, OSS printer whose manufacturer puts time and effort into reducing waste and creating the best, longest lasting ink on the planet would crush it. Well, maybe not. But anytime anyone has said: “That’s it. There’s nothing more to do here.” It tells me there’s a complacent market ripe for disruption.

How many people are using FairPhone or PinePhone outside HN bubble? I don't know anyone, even though most of my friends are from tech or science... I think that answers if people care about hackability / sustainability or similar

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#235

Post by exyi » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #160

qwerty456127 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would like to own a printer again, but for printing something like once a month, I just can't financially justify spending several hundred bucks on a device For printing something like once a month, it is even harder to justify wasting space by putting a printer. Printers should be put around in form of vending machines which would let you you insert a USB stick, drop some pennies and print the PDFs.

There's no way I'd ever use put that USB stick in one of my computers again.

It's not going to make a rubber ducky from it. And the age of autorun USBs is hopefully over. I think this is but too paranoid

However, I'd not want to be the device manufacturer, making it secure against all kinds of USB attacks

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#236

Post by space_ghost » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

copperx wrote: post #210

pc86 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am the same age as you; when we were young the printers themselves were garbage. Constantly breaking, ink cartridges drying out quickly if you weren't printing regularly. Do they still have that damn ribbon thing inside of them? I seem to remember that being a constant source of pain for 13-15 year old me. Now the printers, mechanically, seem pretty good. Some still feel cheap but not necessarily low quality. But a…

I don't remember printers having ink back then. They were all laser. Inkjets came later, but they were seen as toys to print large banners.

My printer memories of the late 90's were of cheap Canon bubblejet printers. The ones that were cheaper to buy than replacement ink cartridges, to the point that it was cheaper to buy a new printer than it was to replace the ink. Good times.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#237

Post by Pmop » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #50

carpenecopinum wrote: post #13

I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. Decades of innovation that have been invested, not to make a better product, but mostly on how to extract more and more money from their victims, I mean "customers". I would like to own a printer again, but for printing something like once a month, I just can't financially justify spendin…

> I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. This is the dying gasps of an industry that is mostly irrelevant in the modern age. When I was growing up we always had a printer, and while ink wasn't cheap, it wasn't too bad, so we used it a lot and printed everything we needed. The industry grew to expect this, most households with…

> printers aren't needed by most people, and those who do need them don't need as much ink

Cool anecdote. Here in Brazil, some small shops and cybercaffes will offer copy/printing services to you for a small change. That's usually where people go if they have to print/scan something. BTW this service is also know as Xerox.

I saw some shops running on retail printers, but most use those printers you can just fill with cheap ink.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#238

Post by GuB-42 » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #76

carpenecopinum wrote: post #13

I can't wrap my head around how the printer market has turned into this absolutely dispicable, foul state that it is in right now. Decades of innovation that have been invested, not to make a better product, but mostly on how to extract more and more money from their victims, I mean "customers". I would like to own a printer again, but for printing something like once a month, I just can't financially justify spendin…

And the question is why competition isn’t working

Because it is not profitable.

Buying cheap third party consumables is a hack. It is people taking advantage of the low prices (entry level printers are often sold at a loss), without paying for the overpriced consumables that is where the real profits are. Back then, manufacturers could absorb the loss, but now, with the printer market tanking, it is becoming harder and harder.

A company that decides to tolerate third party consumables is likely to attract customers who want to do exactly that, a significant loss. If they want to stay profitable, their printers will be more expensive, more than what casual users are ready to pay.

I don't know about laser printers but traditional manufacturers sometimes offer an alternative to expensive ink cartridges: ink tank printers. They are way more expensive than their equivalent cartridge-based printers, but ink is sold in bulk with no DRM (cheap). These, however, are only worthwhile if you print a lot.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#239

Post by pdimitar » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

anjc wrote: post #65

jlturner wrote: post #12

Bummer, I’ve been a fan of Brother in the past. Owned two monochrome laser printers that have been great over 10 years of service with not a single paper jam.

I agree and recommend them to everyone. That said, their monochrome lasers also prevent non-OEM toners from working without an opaque sequence of key presses. Maybe this is normal for printers but it was non-obvious for me.

Huh? What's this sequence of key presses? I have a B&W MFC Brother device and my toner is at 40% so I might need the info in the next year or so.

Re: Tell HN: Brother printers now locking out non-OEM paraphernalia

#240

Post by pdimitar » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 4:33 PM UTC

Gods I hope this is just a fluke but reading OP and some comments it seems that it is not. :(

In any case, first thing I always do when I install a printer is to give it one exact static local IP because I made a firewall rule that blocks all outgoing WAN traffic from that IP. I lost faith in all my periphery to not sing behind my back and took things in my own hands.

My Brother MFC works amazingly well and I will not think as a programmer in this case; I'll be a normal human who says "no need to update it if it works" and leave it at that.

So far zero complains and I am happy with my device. And with these news I am even happier that I am paranoid and make sure my device doesn't get a firmware update.