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Fresh – Next-gen web framework

fresh.deno.dev

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Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#231
1. With this approach of sending "only the small JS chunk needed for interactivity" aren't we going to end up with the situation where chunks A and B need common part C? And what if C needs D etc. There should be provided a dynamic modules loader. Is it implemented in all those hydration based frameworks?

2. How is solved the situation when is delivered to the user, but "onClick" action is not because network failed?

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing what it is now, describing it that way makes total sense... but it only works for people after knowing what it is... kind of like an inside joke. For anyone wondering what it means: it ships only the JS for select components (usually ones that have some sort of client-side interactivity, such as the incrementing counter on their demo page), so it only has to hydrate that part (where hydration is reconciling t…

I'm not an Uncle Bob fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he wrote a somewhat famous article about this phenomenon: http://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html With each new wave - we get people that either lack the time, the willpower or the conditions to understand what came before them (the ground they're standing on), and this is how we end up rediscovering things every 2-3 years. It's much…

> It's just not hip anymore, because it wasn't invented within the past 36 months.

Yes, technology moves in cycles but statements like this grossly generalize.

The amount of Javascript running on the web has exploded over the last decade plus to the point that frameworks like React were released to create more modern, interactive experiences because that's what business demanded. Then the industry started figuring out that the virtual DOM was kind of a scam from a performance standpoint and started looking for ways to achieve better performance and SEO, which brought us back to SSR and more advanced client/server architectures like this.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#233
post #168

> Island based client hydration Software development already has its own vocabulary, but I feel quite ignorant now.

Knowing what it is now, describing it that way makes total sense... but it only works for people after knowing what it is... kind of like an inside joke. For anyone wondering what it means: it ships only the JS for select components (usually ones that have some sort of client-side interactivity, such as the incrementing counter on their demo page), so it only has to hydrate that part (where hydration is reconciling t…

> it ships only the JS for select components

So, even if the page has a single React component, does it ship the entire react + react-dom bundle?

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#236
post #153

Slowly getting somewhat cynical. This is the only space where both "prebuilds everything and therefore saves rendering time and improves caching" and "no build step and so speeds up deployment" are both considered valid feature pitches.

To me it reads more focused on developers than users of the site you build. I like that in the last couple of years the developer experience was improved in some ways, this kind of apps that you could develop "easily" as monolithic could be served in a serverless hosting as a microservice (if I understood correctly how serverless works) serving each endpoint as a separate service, everything without you as dev put to…

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Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#237
post #126

A JS framework, not a web framework

It’s a JS web framework. It does pretty much what your average web framework does, except adds in first class interactivity, and drops an opinionated ORM layer. I personally really like this balance, and will kick the tires when it’s not experimental.

Does anybody know if the goal is to become a more opiniated framework with an ORM layer and MVC structure etc.?

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#239
I've been doing all of this with PHP and a little JS for decades. But sure, next gen..

- Just-in-time rendering on the edge.

- Island based client hydration for maximum interactivity.

- Zero runtime overhead: no JS is shipped to the client by default.

- No build step.

- No configuration necessary.

Re: Fresh – Next-gen web framework

#240

Ryan Dahl talks a bit about it in this talk at Remix Conf 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_nxvVTNY9s&t=10781s He describes it as a post-Unix web framework (i.e. built on serverless primitives like cloudflare workers/deno deploy) with the goal of <10s deployment (which he says requires JIT compilation on first-request)

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