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Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

bikebiz.com

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Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#231
post #193

IIRC it is studied that cars behave more dangerously around bikers with helmets while they give a wide berth to unhelmeted bikers.

The problems is that cars passing cyclists isn't the only time adverse car-cyclist interactions occur. I have been T-boned by a driver approaching from the opposite direction, in full daylight with no visual disruptions, when they failed to "look bike" and turned across my lane. They totally did not see me - so they fact I was wearing a helmet did not factor at all into the situation. I was flipped through the air an…

Absolutely agree, just thought it was interesting piece of evidence.

As a regular biker, close passes are also a smaller of my concerns compared to most of the other hazards on the road.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#232
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you fall on asphalt without a helmet, you can very easily get seriously injured

And this is why you always wear a helmet when walking or going for a jog?

If you cycle a lot, you're almost guaranteed to crash at some point. Falling from walking or jogging is extremely unlikely. You also have much better chance of blocking the fall with your arms, as they're not on a handlebar, but rather already balancing your body.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#233
post #126
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding on roads isn't like mountain biking where you mostly control the amount of risk you take on. Riding on roads puts you at the mercy of other people's choices. I feel the need to wear a helmet anytime I'm riding on a road for that reason.

Helmets protect against falls. They don't protect against cars.

I got doored while biking once. I fell head first into a van. Got away with nothing but scrapes.

Helmets absolutely protect against cars. If I'd been hit, I'd have fallen. Head hits ground, you're fucked.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#234

Okay, true story. Years ago I struggled with this exact logic regarding skiing with helmet. After serious consideration I decided to start skiing so carefully that I do not need a helmet. As you may guess at this point, The very first day I left my helmet home, I got into an accident and got a skull fracture. I started using my helmet again after that. (But another safety related thing I have started to really doubt.…

I've never skied with a helmet. Ridiculous. The only thing you can do about the risk of hitting or being hit, is stay home.

In German speaking countries we went from 15% to 3% of the ski accidents with hospitalization being related to head injuries, this within the past 15/20 years.

This correlates very well with the increase of helmet usage.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#235

I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Should delivery drivers not wear seatbelts because they might not be as afriad that they'll fly through the windshield? Should linemen not wear harnesses because they might be more confident working on power lines? Should warehouse workers not wear hi-vis jackets because they might be more confident working around forklifts? Should construction worke…

> I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning. Wearing a helmet can itself become a leading factor to cause an incident, and it's clearly what they are hinting at in the linked article: that data seems to indicate that riders wearing helmets may be…

No, it rightfully illicits that response. Wearing a safety device shouldn't make an activity less safe.

Your "simple equation" relies on your variables being solid. And they aren't.

It's important to stress that the behavioural studies from Bath (that show helmeted riders take more risks in simulations, that cars give them less space) are not data about whether helmeted users are at greater risk. Or that comparisons between US and NZ riders and outcomes are comparable because of vastly different road and rider profiles.

It's also hard to show how much helmets are helping because zero-harm accidents are rarely reported, so if we assume that they function correctly, and do reduce harm in impacts, we simply don't know how many near-misses there are.

You can look at hospital admission data two studies show 75 and 78% of cyclists admitted with serious-enough head/neck injuries hadn't worn a helmet. That still needs adjusting for total accidents, and proportion of helmeted riders on the road in the first place. Again, poor reporting makes this tough.

You also have to be aware that some studies and stats are polished up by people fervently for and against mandatory helmet laws. Biased reporting doesn't help anyone. There's a good selection here: https://www.helmets.org/stats.htm (domain suggests a strong bias, but I'm not sure).

Pedal Me doesn't provide a good argument here. It seems more like they're worried what their customers will think (do they need helmets too?) and nothing to do with actual safety outcomes.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning. Wearing a helmet can itself become a leading factor to cause an incident, and it's clearly what they are hinting at in the linked article: that data seems to indicate that riders wearing helmets may be…

> Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning. Would it? I've never heard anyone recommend this, but if this did actually reduce the likelihood of a serious head injury in the event of a car crash, then I would seriously consider wearing a helmet while I drive a car. I have no problem wearing one while I ride a bicy…

Not that it correlates much to every day driving, since both speeds and driving patterns differ, but e.g. NASCAR drivers wear helmets (along with that whole neck protection setup that latches to the helmet).

I don't know, however, if a helmet may work worse in conjuction with an airbag though. So personally I think I'd stay away from helmets in cars (but I really have too little data to make an informed decision).

Having said that, in the case of this company, perhaps they could offer their passengers a "Hövding" device? (Hövding being the swedish word for a chieftain, but "hövve" is also slang for head, and in the case of this product it is a... "backpack/necklace thingy" that is a wearable airbag. Supposedly works really well, but probably comes with a price tag matching this function.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#237
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can prove that helmets reduce head injuries both in quantity and severity.

You have the exact same causal issue to untangle. Do safer riders wear helmets or does wear a helmet make you safer as a rider? In reality there are confounds both directions. The effects of helmet wearing are higly contingent based on the geography and demographics.

The devil doesn't need an advocate, please stop.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning. Wearing a helmet can itself become a leading factor to cause an incident, and it's clearly what they are hinting at in the linked article: that data seems to indicate that riders wearing helmets may be…

> Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning. Would it? I've never heard anyone recommend this, but if this did actually reduce the likelihood of a serious head injury in the event of a car crash, then I would seriously consider wearing a helmet while I drive a car. I have no problem wearing one while I ride a bicy…

Motor vehicle accidents are a leading cause of traumatic brain injury related deaths. If you are under 55 the obly higher cause is suicide. (If you qre older than 55, your chances of a TBI related death from an accidental fall start to skyrocket with age.) There is a reason why race car drivers wear helmets, and it isn't just to have another place to plaster sponsor logos.

I am not aware of any studies looking specifically at the effects of helmet wearing on TBI rates of regular drivers, but then good data on that for bicycles is also hard to come by but that doesn't stop people from pushing for bicycle helmets.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#239
Why are these monstrous things allowed in bike lanes anyway? Simple understanding of high school physics shows these things can have massive momentum not remotely comparable to that of a normal bike.

  KE = 1/2 m v^2
A pedestrian impact could be absolutely devastating. A fast moving heavy bike is lethal.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of infrastructure safety will help if you take a tumble and hit your head - a helmet would totally help. Even experienced cyclists take the occasional fall :)

Technically you are correct that wearing a helmet does reduce risk of head injury somewhat. However -when infrastructure for cycling is already very safe- you start seeing all sorts of strange statistical effects; and it is not immediately obvious that helmets are a net benefit. As an example of one of the more funny&misleading statistics: People who wear bicycle helmets in the Netherlands actually end up in hospital…

There's a couple takeaways from the first article. The cyclists with helmets are the serious ones riding for sport. I'd also guess commuters who are going long distances wear helmets. These cyclists are putting in far more miles than unhelmeted cyclists. I see the same thing in my city; very casual bikers don't wear helmets. Commuters and sport cyclists do. And those groups are putting in the most miles by far.

If zero people rode bikes without helmets, you'd see 0 cyclists without helmets in the hospital. All those injured will be wearing helmets. It's a terrible measure.

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