Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

ixns.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 437 posts

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#231

Post by zeteo »

DashAnimal wrote: post #150
baggachipz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Kagi[1] in private beta; they plan to launch a subscription model very soon. I hope it works out. [1] https://kagi.com/faq

I just searched "how to fix a flat tire" on both Google and Kagi and got pretty similar results. Different in display but no .edu links in sight.

I've tried the same and don't find the results super similar. Both search engines seem to think that you're trying to repair the old tire. However the second Google result is goodyear.com which, while trying to sell you tires, does explain how to use the spare:

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/learn/tire-care-maintenance/h...

On Kagi you have to go until the 10th result to get something from Bridgestone, which explains the same thing while being less aggressive about selling tires:

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/maintenance/how-to-cha...

So the trade-off seems to happen between seeing fewer ads and having better tolerance for imprecise queries.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#232

Post by benstrumental »

martimarkov wrote: post #9
owlninja wrote: post #5

I get none of the same results as my top hit?

That's google's personalisation. I like freaking ppl out when I just ask them to google a famous politician's name and compare the results. Some times they get similar results on WiFi and very different on mobile data afterwards. Bringing awareness

Any idea why this happens? I don't understand why WiFi vs. mobile data would impact how they want to personalize the results.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#233

Post by rand0mx1 »

bayareabadboy wrote: post #144

Has anyone else noticed a significant uptick in negative posts about google search lately? Is this because it’s gotten noticeably worse recently or it’s trendy to complain about? Thinking over the last six months or so.

also mention of some closed beta search engine in those post is mandatory.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#234

Post by blagie »

stickfigure wrote: post #218
baggachipz wrote: post #13

Google is so unbearable because they are no longer interested in you finding the answer to your query; they're interested in selling your query and its context to the highest bidder. That conflict of interest manifests in what Google has become.

This makes no sense. You make it sound like Google has no financial incentive to fix this problem, which is patently false. Google isn't selling the organic search results, which is what this article talks about. The problem is that Google is engaged in a war with SEO optimizers, and losing (or at least, barely breaking even). No business model will fix that. It's a hard problem that any successful search engine will…

"Google" is 100+k people. "Google" doesn't respond to incentives; individuals do.

A typical employee at any large company is incentivized to:

- Maximize their salary

- Maximize their future earnings potential (e.g. CV)

- Have fun

- Have work-life balance

... and so on. That goes all the way up to the CEO. Pretending a corporation thinks and responds to incentives is folly. Running a corporation like Google is like herding cats. If everyone marched in the same direction, Google would cut through SEO optimizers like a chainsaw through butter. There is no wayh to do that with 100+k people.

Google fundamentally has no financial incentive to fix any problem, since organizations aren't intelligent, sentient beings which act on incentives. They have dynamics from the interactions of 100k+ individual agents.

There is no magical fairy which makes large organizations act in their own best interests or even try to survive. The only reason they do survive is that's as true of their competitors as themselves.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#235

Post by FredPret »

Nextgrid wrote: post #112
FredPret wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% of people who use Google is a hell of a lot. Also, Bloomberg doesn’t just search, it also provides data

Categorized search results are also data. Bloomberg is no different to Google in this regard, it doesn't generate the data, it just fetches and aggregates market data from various sources which anyone could technically do with enough effort and yet people pay for it.

They add their own interpretations and calculations of footnotes to financial statements. It’s a step beyond categorizing and aggregating.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#236

Post by JKCalhoun »

eimrine wrote: post #151
mrweasel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only two choices. Either Google are no longer interested in finding the best answers to your queries. Or as you point out: They don't care, that is no longer what they do. I cannot imagine it being easy, but I find it hard to believe that Google aren't able to weed out the worst offenders. For a large number of queries the results are all SEO spam. Try searching for anything related to health and get a usef…

> Try searching for anything related to health and get a useful result. It's no longer possible. Medicine researching on the internets always was among the hardest topics. And anyone who really understands Medicine has to write on any advice not to consider it as a real medical advice... I agree that google has degraded down to unusable in comparison to non-global searchable websites (like SO) but Medicine is very ba…

At the same time, it would be the easiest to solve with something like a "white list" (I know, not a good term to use these days). With one stroke you shut out all the bad actors.

In fact, I wonder how far a search engine could go with a curated list of "good actors" you exclusively serve up results from. Add a "search everywhere" link for people that prefer SEO hell.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#237

Post by stetrain »

stickfigure wrote: post #218
baggachipz wrote: post #13

Google is so unbearable because they are no longer interested in you finding the answer to your query; they're interested in selling your query and its context to the highest bidder. That conflict of interest manifests in what Google has become.

This makes no sense. You make it sound like Google has no financial incentive to fix this problem, which is patently false. Google isn't selling the organic search results, which is what this article talks about. The problem is that Google is engaged in a war with SEO optimizers, and losing (or at least, barely breaking even). No business model will fix that. It's a hard problem that any successful search engine will…

But does Google care about the organic search result quality?

For many search terms, the entire above-the-fold and sometimes multiple scroll heights are filled with:

- Ads

- Info cards

- People Also Ask

- Map/Business info

- Videos

- Related Products

- More Ads

The organic search results start after that and on mobile they may as well not exist.

If everyone is clicking the directly or indirectly sponsored/algorithmic content then what incentive does Google have to give you good, straightforward links to relevant webpages?

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#238

Post by JKCalhoun »

zo1 wrote: post #134
mrweasel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only two choices. Either Google are no longer interested in finding the best answers to your queries. Or as you point out: They don't care, that is no longer what they do. I cannot imagine it being easy, but I find it hard to believe that Google aren't able to weed out the worst offenders. For a large number of queries the results are all SEO spam. Try searching for anything related to health and get a usef…

Google has SO much money, they could probably afford to curate the web and white-list websites one at a time and still make money. Personally, I think Google should get out of the search-indexing market entirely and rely on website submissions only. At this point, it's no different than an appstore in terms of volume. Ironically that's where we're heading with most websites being "3.0" and just SPAs and now PWAs even…

I should have just read your comment before replying. You and I are thinking alike.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#239

Post by benstrumental »

metabagel wrote: post #154
metabagel wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kagi search engine which is close to entering public beta has lenses which tailor the search experience. There is a non-commercial lens. The lenses are basically on or off all the time and affect the overall search results.

I just realized that Kagi has a !hn option which will search hacker news.

Where did you find this feature? As a beta user, I have a hard time finding documentation for the features in Kagi. Ironically, searching about Kagi in Kagi is not helpful.
Post reply on HN