Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

tutanota.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 431 posts

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#231

Post by stef25 »

shakna wrote: post #209
stef25 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always amazes me how anyone can be technologically literate and still think world governments should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this Yes I do think that. I'm very familiar with how the EU institutions work and I don't like it, so I'm no fan boy and certainly not trying to defend these kind of proposals. I realize I'm preaching to a very cynical crowd here but I just don't see…

> I realize I'm preaching to a very cynical crowd here but I just don't see EU countries locking up innocent people accused of being pedophiles en masse by some garbage AI 555 wrongful fraud convictions because of Second Sight, between 1996 and 2014, with a 2015 claim of no wrong doing and no system problems [0], in the UK. Rubina Nami, jailed for a year. Seema Misra jailed for longer, whilst innocent and pregnant. N…

Fair enough, thanks for pointing this out.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#233

Post by belter »

Recent discussions

"European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31341249

"Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31329368

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#234

Post by car_analogy »

jstummbillig wrote: post #202
lm28469 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The HN attitude on anything touching privacy with a ten foot pole is awkward. Because the power it gives is basically limitless. Once these things are implemented there will be no going back. It only kind of works when the government acts in good faith, and even then not really. France passed laws against violent demonstrations, they ended up arresting people 200-300km away from Paris because they were suspected to…

When we say that privacy rights can absolutely not be touched, we are, among other things, also saying, whatever criminals get best at abusing those increasingly powerful rights (given the relatively growing space covered by encryption and stuff that happens through or over the internet) get to be more criminal and that's just the price we will have to pay for our collective freedom. This insanely childish and irresp…

Increasingly powerful privacy rights? Do you live in opposite world? Surveillance is growing rapidly, police and other entities have orders of magnitude more data on us than they could have dreamed of a few decades ago, but because there remains an extremely narrow category of data they can't collect in bulk (the content of encrypted communication, but not the metadata), you call this growing privacy?

And all of this while rates of child abuse are falling: https://u.osu.edu/zagorsky.1/2014/09/18/adrainpeterson/

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#235

Post by peoplefromibiza »

nix23 wrote: post #213
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North…

>Government can't blackmail citizen Why not? >Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart.

> Why not?

Because they can't, the moment they do, they'll be roasted for doing it.

Those who tried, failed miserably.

Justice system here is not run by governments, it's a completely separated power.

> Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart.

They control everything in the control rooms, which is not even the case oin EU democracies.

Do you really believe EU governments will control every communication over the wire if this law is approved in the 26 EU countries?

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#236

Post by gambiting »

pc86 wrote: post #199
stef25 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

> nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people I mean this is just blatantly false. History has shown us this is false. Even if you think the current government is fully comprised of kind-hearted, magnanimous, good people, what makes you think that will be the case for the next 10, 50, 100 years? A story - I have a google alert set up for my name. Someone in a different state with the same name was recently…

>>omeone in a different state with the same name was recently arrested. I've gotten 5-6 alerts every day for the last week from various local (to him) newspaper and television station websites announcing his arrest. Name, address, age, alleged offenses, etc. How many will I get if he's found innocent two years from now?

That sounds like a problem that's very unique to the weird justice system in US(and UK to an extent, unfortunately), where the law allows publishing the name and other details of an arrested person. In most(if not all?) EU countries that is strictly forbidden - until the trial is done, any arestee can only be reported on by their first name and with the face hidden. Avoids runining innocent lives like American media do.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#237

Post by eru »

lapcat wrote: post #222
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North…

> What can they do with CSAM data? > Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. In the United States, legal blackmail is called a "plea bargain". You agree to admit you're guilty of a crime, even if you aren't, in return for the government not pursuing harsher charges against you. This occurs withou…

Compare 'Torture and Plea Bargaining' https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti...

> In this essay I shall address the modem American system of plea bargaining from a perspective that must appear bizarre, al though I hope to persuade you that it is illuminating. I am going to contrast plea bargaining with the medieval European law of torture.

> My thesis is that there are remarkable parallels in origin, in function, and even in specific points of doctrine, between the law of torture and the law of plea bargaining. I shall suggest that these parallels expose some important truths about how criminal justice systems respond when their trial procedures fall into deep disorder.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#238

Post by BlargMcLarg »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #215
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being pedantic and apologist for very little reason. There are still dozens of families who have yet to be reimbursed for this mistake, let alone the damage which was caused in the aftermath. Instead, we have a bunch of people still arguing what to do about the situation, all which are paid in tax money that could've been used to solve the issue already. It's not about them being evil. It's about them feeling…

> There are still dozens of families who have yet to be reimbursed for this mistake that has nothing to do with the matter at hand, it's completely OT and, frankly, who cares? It is not EU fault, it's Netherlands's fault. EU doesn't control Netherlands.

Again, you're being pedantic in an attempt to dismiss people.

People could interpret the comment in question as "name examples in Europe", as if commenter was trying to imply "European countries aren't as crazy and totalitarian as the US / the remainder of the world". Several commenters gave examples close to home.

But somehow the EU, as in European Union, will be the exception, and we can't be skeptical of that. Get real.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#239

Post by lazarus101 »

stef25 wrote: post #35

If anyone's read the full proposal, does it specify what types of communication they want to monitor? It seems unlikely that providers like Google and Meta are just going to turn off their E2E encryption and let the EU plug in their cable. Anything else (like just monitoring national providers) will surely just be pointless.

Why do you think they wouldn't? They did it for the US with the "Patriot Act"
Post reply on HN