Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year • Hacker News Board

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#231

Post by muh_gradle » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

birdmanjeremy wrote: post #84

phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

I'm friends with quite a few nurses, primarily travel nurses, and not a single one is considering a change in career that I am aware of. Simply an anecdotal counterpoint and nothing more.

I can add another data point. One of my mother's friends works as a travel nurse. I don't envy her lifestyle, but she seems to find that the compensation makes it worth her time.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#232

Post by smoe » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

Both my mother and sister were nurses and disenchanted with the profession (in Switzerland) long before the pandemic hit, as the hospitals got completely mba'd during their careers. Whereas in the past they could actually take time interacting with patients, now everything needs to be Lean and it's just about shoveling people through the system with minimum resources while extracting ever more money. I don't see how this can end well.

My mother switched to an administrative role internally, 10 years before she got retired and my sister went from nurse to anesthetist and now in the progress of moving to IT as a domain expert for medical software so she can work from home.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#233

Post by qclibre22 » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

These "nursing crisis" articles are a semi-annual feature, likely a PR stunt by the hospitals for more subsidies and guest nurses.

The nursing crisis is 57 years old now: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14252064/ (1965)

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#234

Post by yhoneycomb » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #207

dontbeevil1992 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The healthcare system in the US clearly has nothing to do with free markets considering how unbelievably opaque and regulated everything is.

Actually, that’s exactly how unfettered “free market” capitalism operates. The end game is big companies end up controlling everything, including the regulations in order to tip the scales in their favor.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#235

Post by hedora » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #55

I have a close relation that works for one of the oldest pediatric hospitals in the country. It was recently revealed that they will be shuttering almost all pediatric services in the next year because they can 10x their profits by only serving elderly clients. The entire purpose of this organization was to provide pediatric healthcare, and it wasn’t losing money… Sometimes, it feels like we’re min-maxing ourselves t…

We’re facing some massive generational crises at this point, and it feels like the only solution is to wait for the current leadership to die off, and hope the gen x’ers fix it.

The WWII generation fixed the ozone hole, but their kids didn’t lift a finger for global warming.

Subsequent generations are scrambling to pick up the pieces for our kids, while crap like this, and our rapidly collapsing democracy keep sabotaging our efforts. Heck, in California, we’re actively causing psychological harm to an entire generation of kids (with masks) because of a tiny minority of anti-vaxxer school teachers.

Of course, progressive boomers exist, as do idiotic younger people. However, the current generation of leadership in the US has completely failed us.

Anyway, it’s not surprising to me that that crowd decided to shunt healthcare resources away from their (great) grandkids and into elder care.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#236

Post by zip1234 » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

mminer237 wrote: post #146

pc86 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

> I strongly believe that only physicians should be running hospitals. This is how it is for other professional industries. As an attorney, you can lose your license for sharing any profits with someone who isn't a lawyer. I believe states typically require accounting and engineering firms to either be wholly or two-thirds owned by such professionals as well.

From what I can tell, this is just to keep money in the hands of lawyers and keep prices high.

There are plenty of things that could be done better now by non-lawyers with the help of lawyers (look at Rocket law).

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#237

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

seaman1921 wrote: post #182

PheonixPharts wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard error in this case, assuming the 200 are randomly sampled is: sqrt((p*(1-p)/n) sqrt((0.9*0.1)/200) = 0.021 So 95% confidence interval for this ~ 0.86 - 0.94 Does that radically change the message of this article?

lol.. what kind of calculation is this? n is 1 in this case, the survey was not repeated 200 times from which you derived 90% as the mean number of nurses quitting.

[deleted]

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#238

Post by aluva » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

rel2thr wrote: post #67

Wages need to go up. Also I think there will be a big push to open up immigration to nurses and doctors over the coming decades Kind of weird that the usa prioritizes software developers over healthcare workers in the immigration system .

If have a nursing degree it's easy to immigrate to USA, in fact you will be coming in with a green card unlike tech worker. So to your point, US does prioritize nurses over others. Doctors are different and it's incredibly difficult for a doctor with a foreign degree to practice in US. I know this for a fact since I come a place where almost every other house has a nurse working in Europe/US

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#239

Post by theklub » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

salt-thrower wrote: post #28

phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

> How doctors of all professions lost their professional agency to do-nothing administrators within a generation is quite puzzling The profit model of the U.S. healthcare industry might have something to do with it. The fact that hospitals are run like businesses and have shareholders is insane to me. I know other countries' healthcare systems got hit hard by the pandemic too, but it seems like the uniquely capitalis…

It’s not just that, some hospitals are outsourcing everything disenfranchising the people that work there. And I mean everything from the doctors themselves to IT to the cleaning lady to the food workers and selling the buildings to lease them back. It’s the fleecing of America.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#240

Post by bpodgursky » Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #136

bpodgursky wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shift to EMRs (more-or-less forced by the ACA) has been a huge quality-of-life loss for doctors. Tons of time spent on Epic or Cerner checking boxes and selecting drop-downs. Turned a "trusted professional" advisory role into a keyboard role.

There are medical scribes who will do all that for the physician and for dog-shit wages. Usually these are medical school-wannabes so they can easily be tricked into working for minimum wage, and once they're suitably trained the physician just has to briefly scan the EMR for completeness and sign off on it.

I have not seen this happen extensively, in practice.