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Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

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Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#231

Post by greedo »

cseleborg wrote: post #223
greedo wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close rates are better because a captive customer is at a severe disadvantage to the psychological tactics used in sales.

Objection, your honor! I sold private whisky casks to individuals or groups. Before the pandemic, I would sit down at the table with them and guide them through a tasting, several hours long. My close rate was close to 50%. With the pandemic, I switched to shipping samples and moderating the tasting online via Zoom or Teams. My close rate dropped to noise level. I don't think I fundamentally changed my "tactics", and…

You're agreeing with me. Psychologically, once you have a potential buyer in your physical presence (especially outside of their environment), you have a tremendous advantage in closing.

And sales where you're giving a sample like whisky? The social obligation to reciprocate for receiving something "free" is very strong. The idea behind giving a sample in a sales pitch isn't to get them to like the whisky (though it helps eliminate/reduce resistance), it's to incur that social obligation.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#232

Post by ipaddr »

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #104

Very favorable comments all around from the very online crowd who comments here. I’m much more skeptical. I have no doubt this will work well for some students, but as someone who taught online for the better part of two years I can say with certainty that the experience is very different and (for the wide majority of students) worse than being in person. My colleagues and I can attest to both general learning loss (…

What if you and your colleague and alike were replaced with the best couple of teachers in the state with the rest of the money spent on eas who could help directly. We might see two full grade improvements.

Trying to replicate the in person experience online is going to be a worse experience. The benefits, reduce costs and chances for a better education are there.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#233

Post by mindcrime »

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #104

Very favorable comments all around from the very online crowd who comments here. I’m much more skeptical. I have no doubt this will work well for some students, but as someone who taught online for the better part of two years I can say with certainty that the experience is very different and (for the wide majority of students) worse than being in person. My colleagues and I can attest to both general learning loss (…

IMO the lesson of the pandemic is “no it’s not and it’s never going to be.”

The "it's never going to be" part does not necessarily follow from any of the data presented so far. Perhaps we simply need a better understanding of how people learn online, and get better at using technological tools to facilitate learning?

I mean, is there any particular reason to think we've reached the pinnacle of what learning software and online educational platforms can do?

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#234

Post by bluetwo »

blip54321 wrote: post #219
huitzitziltzin wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me your secret. Is there anything you do differently, relative to in person? Or do you just end up with a selected sample of super motivated students? This in particular: > The class discussions have been meatier... is a literal miracle. I think it might be this: > I am fortunate to teach small classes of motivated students with good study skills. I teach an honors and a regular section of one of my class…

> Is there anything you do differently, relative to in person? Online, everything needs to be done differently from in-person: - Lecture is a waste of time. Pre-made stuff will be higher-quality than anything you can deliver, and save a lot of time - Grading should be automated as much as possible. Immediate feedback is powerful for students, as is being able to move at their own pace, have targeted remediation, etc.…

You nailed it.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#237

Post by waterhouse »

mattmcknight wrote: post #143
sandworm101 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In person is obviously better for actual learning. I went to highschool before online was an option. But a few years ago I was talking to a kid who had the option to do classes online, at their own pace . They were free to take final exams whenever they wanted. If I could complete classes like that I would probably have finished highschool in a couple months. I might not have "learned" as much, but who here actually…

School would be vastly improved by the ability to pre-test out of topics or subjects. I actually went to an elementary school that let you do that for math and it was great.

The fact that this isn't common is mind-boggling to me. If a student can prove that they know the subject well enough that them sitting in that class would be a waste, then why does anyone think it's a good idea to make them continue sitting in that class?

My first guess is "there are some pushy parents who will want their kid to be in a higher class even when their kid isn't qualified for it". The answer to this is, have a rigorous test and a high standard for skipping a class.

My second guess is "teachers have a general stance of not wanting to make any 'concessions' to parents, otherwise that will attract more pushy parents". (I did once have a math teacher who said "If I let you ... then I'd have 100 parents wanting the same for their kids.") So... keeping a strong negotiating position for the teachers is more important than doing right by individual students.

I think the answer is that, ultimately, the people making decisions about children's education don't have strong incentives to make it go well. If the kid sits in class bored but not causing trouble, that doesn't create a problem for the teacher or the principal; if the kid is enthusiastically learning in the next-level class, that might be nice for that teacher, but on average likely won't make a huge difference—and actually the teacher whose class the kid came from will get a replacement student who might need help, so that teacher may be genuinely disincentivized to recommend the kid's advancement, even aside from the "negotiating position" aspect.

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#238

Post by Diris »

bsenftner wrote: post #105
andrepd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless we automate teachers in the near future, I wouldn't hold my breath. Educational content on the internet is paradigm-changing, don't get me wrong: with access to the internet you can access a virtually unlimited set of learning materials: high-quality encyclopedias, books in the public domain, (books outside the public domain if you're willing to pirate), endless videos on virtually any language, any musical in…

We can't automate teachers, in any effective manner. To teach requires an empathetic comprehension of the student's misunderstanding. That right there requirements an AI goal so far a head of our current capabilities, it may as well be called impossible. Modern AI has no capacity whatsoever for comprehension, and that is about as big a failure as something called an artificial intelligence can fail.

I'm not saying you're wrong but maybe this'll be interesting to some.

A New Era: Intelligent Tutoring Systems Will Transform Online Learning for Millions https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.03724

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#239

Post by Diris »

t_mann wrote: post #66

There was an essay recently on HN on the merits of individual tutoring for children, in the spirit of Renaissance aristocrat education (not the exam-prep style tutoring that is common today). Projects like Khan Academy could make this extremely resource-intensive style of education a bit more accessible (not on their own maybe, but as a building block). Edit: PS: just remembered, if there were orgs like Khan or other…

Providing the link for those interested

Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30698624

Re: Khan Academy launches Khan World School online high school

#240

Post by tombert »

abrax3141 wrote: post #74
Marcan wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you say that? Can you elaborate? As far as I'm concerned, it is a great free online resource which makes learning accessible to everyone. Sal Khan is also an excellent teacher.

There’s like 500 way better online resources for any given KA topic. Take any KA video and compare it with the same topic from Numberphile, VSauce, or even just a random person who knows how to teach.

I feel like you're comparing apples and oranges.

I love Numberphile, but they work best as an exposure to new concepts. I'm not watching Numberphile to help me with my statistics homework, I'm watching to be introduced to the concept itself in a relatively entertaining way. It's closer to recreational math than a learning aid.

On the other end, I find KA videos to be a bit dry, but are useful when I need help with a specific concept in statistics or calculus or something.

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