5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#231

Post by brigandish » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:23 AM UTC

rajup wrote: post #218

brigandish wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> See I can pick parts of a random definition off google the same way you do. I shared the whole definition I found from the first result returned to me[1], and I didn't use Google. If you have a better definition then I would suggest that a better response would've been to share it instead of falsely accusing others of mistakes only you have made. [1] https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cultural-appropriation-...

Uh ok, Bing/DDG whatever, that's an odd thing to nitpick. I'm not sure who is accusing whom of what, I just pointed out that the definition YOU found from wherever, has the exact phrase I alluded to above. The phrase I quoted specifically says why this could be seen as cultural appropriation, but you seem to be intent on arguing semantics of words and nitpicking so I'm not really sure what your goal is here.

> Bing/DDG whatever, that's an odd thing to nitpick

Actually, it serves as an easy way to display how little your claim resembles reality, because it underlines how zero of what you wrote is correct.

> I'm not sure who is accusing whom of what

Have you considered reading the thread you’re commenting in and not wasting the time of others?

> I'm not really sure what your goal is here.

If you want to claim that it’s cultural appropriation then the definition matters. If the definition doesn’t matter then neither does the claim, and it would serve only as one more meaningless pejorative in the service of ad hominem that does nothing to advance the conversation. Which, as far as I can tell, is the whole purpose of “cultural appropriation” as a concept.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#232

Post by rajup » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 7:51 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #230

rajup wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you keep focusing on Patanjali, who I'll concede is beyond caring about this. But the people from his culture and civilization who ARE alive today do not want to see his works (some who consider it sacred) associated with "beer" or "goats" or commercialized without proper credit and respect, and it is important to them. I'm not sure why that reason is not good enough for you? Are you the kind of pers…

I’m not the kind of person who engages in cheap ad hominem with someone they’re in discussion with, that’s what I do know. > I'm not sure why you keep focusing on PatanjalI He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad hominem. > But the people from his culture and civilization who ARE alive…

> Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them?

I believe so yes. Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice but I assure you many many people in india practice it.

> He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad hominem.

I don’t think I ever mentioned plagiarism, you probably have me confused with someone else.

> Why do they care more than Patanjali? Why does being Indian matter when yoga is implicitly non-national? Nationalism, a disease which India currently appears riddled with, is a specious line of reasoning.

The fact that you’re even asking this question tells me more about your unchecked privilege than anything else. And re nationalism: no thanks we don’t need outsiders telling us what we should be thinking, we had 2 centuries of that, don’t care for it much.

> This whole line of argument is absurd, and I might be in a better mood to entertain them if you cut out the ad hominem, but I doubt it.

Sounds good, I wish you well.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#233

Post by throwaway693 » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 11:18 AM UTC

thenerdhead wrote: post #73

After reading Wim Hof and James Nestor a couple years ago during the pandemic, I used their techniques in full while battling long Covid. I had a blood pressure monitor and pulse oximeter on my bedside table that I would experiment with doing these various techniques and seeing my heart rate go down, my blood pressure go down, my anxiety would disappear, lung/chest inflammation would settle, and even oxygen levels in…

The only beef i have with Wim Hof is he says one's attitude matter in following his method. He says a person should be open minded and accept without ego, something along those lines. The problem is its not quantifiable and kind of cop-out, so I don't take it too seriously.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#234

Post by brigandish » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

rajup wrote: post #232

brigandish wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not the kind of person who engages in cheap ad hominem with someone they’re in discussion with, that’s what I do know. > I'm not sure why you keep focusing on PatanjalI He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad hominem. > But the people from his culture and civilization who ARE alive…

> Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? I believe so yes. Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice but I assure you many many people in india practice it. > He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad…

> > Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them?

> I believe so yes.

Should I wait for some reasoning to back that up or do I have to ask? If I ask will I get an answer?

> Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice

People who practice it versus people who don't, like the average Indian.

> but I assure you many many people in india practice it.

Many people who are not Indian practise yoga - why does the average Indian have more claim to it than these people? Would Patanjali think they do?

> I don’t think I ever mentioned plagiarism, you probably have me confused with someone else.

This is the thread you're on[1], do you have it confused with another?

> The fact that you’re even asking this question tells me more about your unchecked privilege than anything else.

Again, no answer, just ad hominem. Why do they care more than Patanjali?

> And re nationalism: no thanks we don’t need outsiders telling us what we should be thinking, we had 2 centuries of that, don’t care for it much.

Poe's Law comes to mind.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31036720

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#235

Post by giardini » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

isitmadeofglass wrote: post #222

giardini wrote: post #216

Swimming also restrict air flow to the lungs: you must inhale quickly and hold your breath during parts of the strokes. Possibly the effect shown here contributes to swimming being such a good exercise and might be useful in comparing the physiology of swimming with that of similar sports (e.g., rowing). Would this regimen improve the blood pressure of swimmers? Swimmers are already breathing under restrictive condit…

While breathing during swimming is definitely “less easy” than normally, I would point out that when swimming you are not experiencing resistive airflow. But some trainer snorkels do include pieces to increase airflow resistance and it might have similar effects to IMST. I’m not sure if these are used by serious athletes though.

isitmadeofglass says >"when swimming you are not experiencing resistive airflow."I disagree! During swimming:

- you have a window of time within which to inhale during each stroke and you're inhaling as much as possible. If you do this slower then you move slower (and you lose the race),

- meanwhile the (mouth, throat, lungs) system works to keep stray water from entering the lungs and to remove any that has entered, causing further restriction,

- the position of the head and neck relative to the body constantly changes b/c of the body's rotation and the head's movement. The airflow changes accordingly.

Ask any other competitive/Masters' swimmer about this.

For these reasons I doubt "PowerBreathe" is useful to (esp. competitive) swimmers, who already are breathing in a restricted manner. But that's just my opinion after swimming and racing for decades.

Note: To my astonishment, while searching this topic before posting, I stumbled across PowerBreathe ads targeted toward swimmers, the very audience I thought would find it useless! So maybe I've been sucked into a PowerBreathe SPAM campaign unwittingly.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#236

Post by rajup » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 11:44 PM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #234

rajup wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? I believe so yes. Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice but I assure you many many people in india practice it. > He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad…

> > Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? > I believe so yes. Should I wait for some reasoning to back that up or do I have to ask? If I ask will I get an answer? > Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice People who practice it versus people who don't, like the average Indian. > but I assure you many many people in india practi…

This will be my last response since I'm finding it increasingly hard to believe you're arguing in good faith.

> Should I wait for some reasoning to back that up or do I have to ask? If I ask will I get an answer?

The Yogic practices originated in the Indian subcontinent, so yes the people who identify themselves with the same civilization and culture as the person(s) who originated these practices do have a larger claim as to how these practices are presented, taught and understood. It would seem that your claim that such a notion is "ridiculous" is on much more shakier ground than mine. I don't see you presenting any reasoning as to why you believe this is "ridiculous". You certainly feel so, but there's nothing special or important about your feelings on the matter.

> People who practice it versus people who don't, like the average Indian.

Not sure what relevance this has to the matter, but ok thanks for the clarification.

> Many people who are not Indian practise yoga - why does the average Indian have more claim to it than these people? Would Patanjali think they do?

See above.

> Again, no answer, just ad hominem.

No ad hominem, just an observation. I keep saying that there are people who sometimes dislike the co-opting and whitewashing/rebranding of Yoga (see the linked article). You keep insisting that it's not a problem and that I should just not care. It's again hard to attribute good intent here. BTW on the topic of ad hominem, you're the one who seemed close to accusing me of rabid "nationalism", perhaps not those exact words but you and I both know exactly what you mean.

> Why do they care more than Patanjali?

Why not?

> Poe's Law comes to mind.

Randomly throwing the names of rhetorical devices or "laws" in a conversation does not make your argument any stronger FYI.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#237

Post by michaelcampbell » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 11:59 PM UTC

chubot wrote: post #78

thenerdhead wrote: post #73

After reading Wim Hof and James Nestor a couple years ago during the pandemic, I used their techniques in full while battling long Covid. I had a blood pressure monitor and pulse oximeter on my bedside table that I would experiment with doing these various techniques and seeing my heart rate go down, my blood pressure go down, my anxiety would disappear, lung/chest inflammation would settle, and even oxygen levels in…

I got a pulse oximeter a couple years ago too, and it was eye opening (before COVID, and I didn't get COVID). The realtime feedback is useful and actionable. Breathing more slowly, exhaling more than inhaling (counterintuitive), pausing, and breathing through the nose definitely make a difference for me. But everyone is a little different so you have to experiment. Breathing is very multidimensional and hard to expla…

Was it Nestor that buys into the "acid diet" idea that has been debunked?

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#238

Post by 0ldskool » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 12:19 AM UTC

kevincox wrote: post #175

tsol wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When recovering after exercise, the body does something called overcompensating. It doesn't just repair the damage done but actually strengthens the area. Muscles undergo hypertrophy and bone becomes more dense. So when you challenge the body physically a moderate amount, something called functional overreaching, your body responds by actually strengthening itself. Obviously inanimate objects don't have this system s…

To go one "Why?" deeper. The reason that our bodies do this, as opposed to making all muscles strong all the time, is to avoid wasting energy on muscles you aren't using. It is basically using what muscles were used recently as a heuristic for which muscles need to be strong to ensure survival.

I would say since the primary goal of genetic life is to survive and pass on genetic code. Muscles which clearly ended up working so hard that they were damaged need to be strengthen so next time such and such situation occurs they do not need to be stressed to such an extent. They are prepare for the eventual re-occurring of that task. Eventually you will lose muscle mass if you do not use/need it.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#239

Post by meristohm » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 1:48 AM UTC

leobg wrote: post #152

thenerdhead wrote: post #73

After reading Wim Hof and James Nestor a couple years ago during the pandemic, I used their techniques in full while battling long Covid. I had a blood pressure monitor and pulse oximeter on my bedside table that I would experiment with doing these various techniques and seeing my heart rate go down, my blood pressure go down, my anxiety would disappear, lung/chest inflammation would settle, and even oxygen levels in…

You say “their technique” and “this new tool”. For someone who hasn’t read Hof and Nestor, could you point to any resources explaining the specific techniques you are referring to? If I go down the Google/YT rabbit hole, I fear I’ll be confronted with hundreds of such techniques and just get utterly confused. Thank you.

Breath: the new science of a lost art, by James Nestor (book; helped me switch fully to nasal breathing, practicing better posture, warm myself when I'm cold, and breathing with my whole torso rather than just belly)

Becoming the Iceman: pushing past perceived limits, by Wim Hof (book, but I've only listened to his breathing exercises for warming the body)

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#240

Post by meristohm » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 1:55 AM UTC

thenerdhead wrote: post #77

inter_netuser wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>their techniques can you link to the exact regimen? tia

https://www.wimhofmethod.com/breathing-exercises (YouTube video is best) Nestor stuff is short. Breathe through nose, tape your mouth, right nostril inhale/left exhale.

By "tape your mouth", James Nestor suggests taping the mouth shut while sleeping, to condition the nose (extra benefit of not drying out the gums--my dentist approves). It took months of applying a thin strip of tape vertically across my lips (surgical tape, easy to pull off if needed, but it never came to that), and now I habitually breathe through my nose at night instead of my mouth, and can nose-breathe all day, too, where before I'd need some mouth-breaths in a panic.

The switching-nostils breathing is just one way to practice (there's a list at the back of the book). If anything, best practice for oxygenation and venting C02 seems to be inhaling over 5-6 seconds and exhaling for the same or slightly longer. The more-recent book Breath Taking by Michael Stephen backs this up.