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Why I'll never use Affirm again

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Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#231

Post by avianlyric »

harles wrote: post #191
mymllnthaccount wrote: post #39

This is kind of OP's fault, right? I don't think it was appropriate to initiate a charge back on a payment to affirm since they provided their service to OP, that is they already paid for whatever OP was buying. I have a feeling that timing between OP opening the chargeback and the shipping of the item was actually coincidental. I'd think if you paid affirm and the merchant hadn't shipped the item, then your recourse…

Yikes, I can’t believe all the comments blaming OP. It was clearly the retailer in breach of Affirm’s terms, not OP. Charge backs also have a limited window to claim - I can’t see anything that was done wrong here by OP. Yes, OP could’ve attempted to resolve with affirm up front, but why should that be necessary?

> Charge backs also have a limited window to claim

That window generally starts counting down once the original transaction has completed in it’s entirety, which means you’ve received the goods (until you get the goods or services only one half of the transaction has completed).

If the merchant doesn’t deliver, then there is no limit on the chargeback period, assuming you’ve made a reasonable attempt to chase the merchant and got nowhere.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#232

Post by toss1 »

simulate-me wrote: post #13
aynyc wrote: post #4

My next steps are to file a complaint with the NY State Attorney General's office. This is a right approach. I wish more people know about this.

Filing a complaint is nice, but you’re basically at the mercy of the AG to care enough to do something.

>>Filing a complaint is nice, but you’re basically at the mercy of the AG to care enough to do something.

Not in my experience in NY. Some decades ago in NY, I had a problem cancelling a gym membership within legally specified rights. Got nowhere. Sent a letter to the AG, and suddenly like magic, the clouds parted and the matter was resolved in my favor. MA AG is also very responsive.

The real scumbags often will not pay attention, but any biz that has the slightest interest in being around for the long term will definitely take notice when the AG starts to get involved. It is a hornet's nest you do not want kicked anywhere near you.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#233

Post by senko »

chernevik wrote: post #227
mlevchin-affirm wrote: post #198

Hi, I am the CEO at Affirm. I am sorry for the bad experience you appear to have had with our customer support — it is certainly not what we strive for. Please email me at max.levchin @ affirm.com with either the transaction ID or the email address you used to register, and I will track down exactly what happened here. I realize you may not care at this point, but I’d greatly appreciate it, as it will help us prevent…

I hope he doesn't. It sounds like your customer service is the usual cost-minimization nightmare, and I don't see how fixing this one case will make it any better. Companies like yours make it hard for customers to reach capable representatives and routinely break service promises. Because hey! who cares if we have treated people decently? it has nothing to do with the business model. There must be dozens of ways to…

>> Please email me [...] it will help us prevent poor customer experiences.

> I hope he doesn't. [...] Don't fix this case, fix your systems.

He's literally trying to do exactly that (and acknowledged the customer is pissed and likely can't be bothered to).

How would you hande this situation?

Not the hypothetical "I'd never let this happen", because if you haven't given at least someone a bad customer experience, you didn't have customers.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#234

Post by treis »

aunty_helen wrote: post #183
mymllnthaccount wrote: post #39

This is kind of OP's fault, right? I don't think it was appropriate to initiate a charge back on a payment to affirm since they provided their service to OP, that is they already paid for whatever OP was buying. I have a feeling that timing between OP opening the chargeback and the shipping of the item was actually coincidental. I'd think if you paid affirm and the merchant hadn't shipped the item, then your recourse…

What? How are you going to charge back against someone you didn't actually deal with financially? Your arguement is that Affirm should be able to clip the ticket and hold no responsibility for their client fufilling their duties? The charge back goes to who you paid for a service, if they need to pass it on, it's for them to do.

OP used a card to pay a loan and the amount was correctly credited to their account. They're getting what they used the credit card to pay for.

I think the loophole here is Affirm not being regulated like a CC. Then they'd be required to arbitrate the dispute between OP and the merchant.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#235

Post by toss1 »

mihaic wrote: post #78

As someone that never goes in debt and would never use Affirm, I still realize these types of services will impact me. Just like with high cashback credit cards, they have large merchant comissions, that in the end have to be covered from the other customers to show only a single price. I end up subsidizing other customers by a tiny amount, and just wish for regulation to stop this micro-theft.

Perhaps ask for a cash discount? (obvsly doesn't apply online)

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#236

Post by jallen_dot_dev »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #17

I've never understood the appeal of using a product like Affirm, especially if you already have a credit card. Credit cards already give you a 30-day grace period before purchases start accruing interest. Using Affirm to extend that to 42 days seems inconsequential. It seems like their target customer are people bad with credit, which would make them predatory.

Other commenters are offering very rational reasons including inflation and the time-value of money, but I think there's a much simpler explanation when it comes to most people: they see a smaller number, it's psychologically easier to pay less today.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#237

Post by aunty_helen »

jallen_dot_dev wrote: post #225
aunty_helen wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? How are you going to charge back against someone you didn't actually deal with financially? Your arguement is that Affirm should be able to clip the ticket and hold no responsibility for their client fufilling their duties? The charge back goes to who you paid for a service, if they need to pass it on, it's for them to do.

Author never disputed the transaction with Affirm, he just went straight to chargeback after getting nowhere with the merchant.

> and they were unresponsive to my requests for a shipping date

There wasn’t an issue with Affirm not paying the money onward, why go to them.

Once again, Affirm have agreed to give credit to this company, that relationship is theirs. If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too.

Credit cards work like this, you pay your 2-4% fee and you’re guaranteed what you expected to receive.

Hence why airlines changing peoples tickets out for credit during the pandemic was easily routed around via a cc charge back.

I literally had the Turkish government change the law on my ticket to say the airline didn’t have to fly me but could swap my ticket for credit and I still made it away with my money in the end.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#238

Post by arcastroe »

chernevik wrote: post #227
mlevchin-affirm wrote: post #198

Hi, I am the CEO at Affirm. I am sorry for the bad experience you appear to have had with our customer support — it is certainly not what we strive for. Please email me at max.levchin @ affirm.com with either the transaction ID or the email address you used to register, and I will track down exactly what happened here. I realize you may not care at this point, but I’d greatly appreciate it, as it will help us prevent…

I hope he doesn't. It sounds like your customer service is the usual cost-minimization nightmare, and I don't see how fixing this one case will make it any better. Companies like yours make it hard for customers to reach capable representatives and routinely break service promises. Because hey! who cares if we have treated people decently? it has nothing to do with the business model. There must be dozens of ways to…

> I hope he doesnt.

I personally find Max's (CEO's) response great, and his direct reply and personal note/care is one of the best possible outcomes in this situation. I wouldn't want to discourage this kind of response.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#239

Post by jallen_dot_dev »

aunty_helen wrote: post #237
jallen_dot_dev wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author never disputed the transaction with Affirm, he just went straight to chargeback after getting nowhere with the merchant.

> and they were unresponsive to my requests for a shipping date There wasn’t an issue with Affirm not paying the money onward, why go to them. Once again, Affirm have agreed to give credit to this company, that relationship is theirs. If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too. Credit cards work like this, you pay your 2-4% fee and you’re guaranteed what you expected to receive. Hence why…

> If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too.

Again, they didn't even know there was a problem because the author never brought it to their attention before the chargeback.

The author borrowed money from Affirm and agreed to pay it back. He's in breach of his contract with Affirm, over a dispute with the merchant (a different party).

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#240

Post by michaelmrose »

mlevchin-affirm wrote: post #198

Hi, I am the CEO at Affirm. I am sorry for the bad experience you appear to have had with our customer support — it is certainly not what we strive for. Please email me at max.levchin @ affirm.com with either the transaction ID or the email address you used to register, and I will track down exactly what happened here. I realize you may not care at this point, but I’d greatly appreciate it, as it will help us prevent…

It is great that you are trying to help but a customer support situation where there is no actual recourse but complaining on hacker news can't possibly scale and while functional orgs absolutely DO drop the ball sometimes they don't drop the ball repeatedly. From my experience something like this not getting escalated and then escalated again until somebody can handle it is that the system process is broken. In other words there is no sane universe where you learn about this problem on hacker news.

How do you plan to fix THAT.

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